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Lol WOTR has had a gajillion updates but nothing for IG yet

Any one hear about any progress on the IG updates? I'd try to help if I could but I barely passed my intro to programming class.

Traditionally, the people who create the files free for us lazy masses wait a month or so after the release of the book.

It hasn't been a month yet, has it?

Wait until the first or so week of June.

Or learn html and code it yourself.

What is army builder????

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:What is army builder????

An army building application with a dodgy as hell licence, crappy output and an update schedule that for some odd reason, leaves a huge delay after each book.

Don't use it.

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:What is army builder????

What?
Are you serious?

::Cue Angelic Choir::

Army Builder is a roster creation program. It is a tool for gamers, sent down to Earth by the Gods of Gaming themselves.

When Man first gamed, he required archaic tools known as "Pencils" or "pens" with which to created his armies. He actually calculated points WITH HIS BRAIN.
Then, one day, the Gods smiled down upon is and gave us...

:ramatic pause::

Army Builder.

http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=army_builder

You have now been enlightened, Brother Vulkan_He'stan.
Go ye forth and spread the gospel.


Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:
When Man first gamed, he required archaic tools known as "Pencils" or "pens" with which to created his armies. He actually calculated points WITH HIS BRAIN.
Then, one day, the Gods smiled down upon is and gave us...

Alternatively, one could just use Calc.exe and Notepad.

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:What is army builder????

An army building application with a dodgy as hell licence, crappy output and an update schedule that for some odd reason, leaves a huge delay after each book.

Don't use it.

Good lord you're ignorant. You made three statements in your post, and managed to be completely wrong three times. How'd you even manage to find your keyboard?

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:
When Man first gamed, he required archaic tools known as "Pencils" or "pens" with which to created his armies. He actually calculated points WITH HIS BRAIN.
Then, one day, the Gods smiled down upon is and gave us...

Alternatively, one could just use Calc.exe and Notepad.

Yes.
You're correct. One COULD do that.

Alternatively, one could choose to use the easier, more user friendly "point and click" option of Army Builder.

Eric

Bookwrack wrote:

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:What is army builder????

An army building application with a dodgy as hell licence, crappy output and an update schedule that for some odd reason, leaves a huge delay after each book.

Don't use it.

Good lord you're ignorant. You made three statements in your post, and managed to be completely wrong three times. How'd you even manage to find your keyboard?

Uh...

1) The Licence is indeed very dodgy.
2) The output tends to take up large amounts of space, including unneeded stuff like say, Bolters for space marines.
3) While I may not be able to recall why they have a big delay, they do indeed have one.

MagickalMemories wrote:
Yes.
You're correct. One COULD do that.

Alternatively, one could choose to use the easier, more user friendly "point and click" option of Army Builder.

Eric

See, I don't find it easier, since you're going to have to check stuff against the codex after making an AB list anyway.

My buddy has been using a pen and paper and his codex for 10 minutes writing down what all he wanted to put in a 2000 pt. Necron list. I just saw this thread and decided to fire up Army Builder. In two minutes I point and clicked a list for him.

I don't know why people are saying the license system is wonky, you buy the program and they give you two licenses. When's the last time you got more than one license for a program? They do what a lot of companies do, they verify the license when you install the program. If you have a problem, you can call and talk to a human being to get the problem fixed. You can't do that with Steam or Games for Windows: Live at all.

When a new codex comes out the updates have a few bugs, but the datafile authors usually fix them in less than a week or figure a workaround. They have an agreement with GW to hold on to the update for a month after a codex is release, so GW won't sic their lawyers on them. Small price to pay to keep out of court.

With very few negatives, it's still a good tool to use.

To ChrisAsmadi:

1. How is the license dodgy? I've moved my two copies to several computers and never had a problem.

2. The output is highly customizable. Just because you don't know how to make it do what you want it to doesn't mean that its bad. You can really crunch it down and remove the "chaff", as it were (I typically do this).

3. The data files are maintained by a seperate group of volunteers who provide the service (of creating the data files) for free. They are completely unaffiliated with Wolf Lair, who makes the army builder software. If you really can't wait, the software comes with the tools to generate your own data files.

Iorek wrote:To ChrisAsmadi:

1. How is the license dodgy? I've moved my two copies to several computers and never had a problem.

2. The output is highly customizable. Just because you don't know how to make it do what you want it to doesn't mean that its bad. You can really crunch it down and remove the "chaff", as it were (I typically do this).

3. The data files are maintained by a seperate group of volunteers who provide the service (of creating the data files) for free. They are completely unaffiliated with Wolf Lair, who makes the army builder software. If you really can't wait, the software comes with the tools to generate your own data files.

1. I have two machines I would need to install it on - my PC and my netbook. If I have to, say, upgrade the hardware or reinstall the OS on one of them, I'm stuffed for the licences.

2. Fair enough. Most of the outputs I've seen for it are terrible, so it's more a case of people not customizing it.

3. Which means the people who are putting in the work aren't even the ones getting paid.

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

Iorek wrote:To ChrisAsmadi:

1. How is the license dodgy? I've moved my two copies to several computers and never had a problem.

2. The output is highly customizable. Just because you don't know how to make it do what you want it to doesn't mean that its bad. You can really crunch it down and remove the "chaff", as it were (I typically do this).

3. The data files are maintained by a seperate group of volunteers who provide the service (of creating the data files) for free. They are completely unaffiliated with Wolf Lair, who makes the army builder software. If you really can't wait, the software comes with the tools to generate your own data files.

1. I have two machines I would need to install it on - my PC and my netbook. If I have to, say, upgrade the hardware or reinstall the OS on one of them, I'm stuffed for the licences.

2. Fair enough. Most of the outputs I've seen for it are terrible, so it's more a case of people not customizing it.

3. Which means the people who are putting in the work aren't even the ones getting paid.

1. You obviously have never tried moving a license. It is fairly painless. If you upgrade more than twice a year you may have issues, otherwise, you are good.
I have had a license since AB2, where I had the cd. I have upgraded computers multiple times and had no problems switching.

2. Personal Preference. I don't care for the points breakdown and remove that, otherwise I use everything. Just as easy to look at your list as look at the army ref sheet in the book.

3. You are changing your argument now. This is probably the only reason Armybuilder still exists. Otherwise they would have been shutdown years ago.
The delay is there because GW said so, has nothing to do with the program lacking support.

Some very dedicated individuals upgrade these for us, and I, for one, appreciate it greatly. I use the delay as a time to read the new books and get familiar with it so I can see if something in AB is wonky. Many of the things AB catches for you enable you to notice if something does/n't work the way you expect.

If you do not trust AB to give accurate points, why do you trust any other method, including your own math? Just as likely to be wrong. Unless you are perfect.

skrulnik wrote:
If you do not trust AB to give accurate points, why do you trust any other method, including your own math? Just as likely to be wrong. Unless you are perfect.

Which is exactly why I run it through calc.exe twice.

I used to use excel to do it (with a custom macro and all), but I stopped bothering to rewrite the settings with each update (I only had two armies at the time. Now I have 4, going on 5).

AB is easy. As a part-time TO, it helps with list verification and weeding out dodgy entries (it doesn't remove the need for the codex, but is helpful for pointing out irregularities.)
It isn't always right - but then, neither are GW who have frequently over-ruled their own stuff in an FAQ.

One reason I use AB is because I can fool around trying to make lists for other armies whose [plural for codex] I do not have.

As much as I enjoy working out a list in a notebook with a codex in front of me, Army Builder
is a good second set of eyes.

If you play a lot of games with a number of different armies Army Building is a great investment.

Unlike a written list Army builder gives me stats, that way I don't have to have my codex open and facing a new player to let him know that yes, Vulkan does have a master crafted ruin Weapon and digital weapons. He can just look at my army list and the game tends to move quicker.

Of course maybe I'm bias because of a tyrinid player I once played who forgot he didn't buy a certain upgrade on a carnifax and therefore was going at I2 instead of I1. Army builder would have said the carni was going at I1.....

Ignore ChrisAsmadi.

Get Army Builder. It is, bar none, the best armybuilding software out there. As any other piece of software, you need to learn how to use it, but once you do you'll never regret it.

As a bonus it delivers a readable and nice armylist to hand to your opponent.

Steelmage99 wrote:Ignore ChrisAsmadi.
Get Army Builder.

Ignore Everyone.

Try Army builder (there is a free, very restrictive, demo version) and make up your mind.

AB is great unless you need support from Wolf's Lair. I got a laptop last year that I had installed AB on that I had to rebuild about a week after I got it (Vista to XP FTW). Tried to reinstall AB on it and it said I couldn't apply the license because it had been changed in the last 6 months. THREE weeks of silence from Wolf's Lair on both their forums and support email on how to resolve.

Is there any way i can get AB for free
Its a bit over priced $39.99!!

No there isn't a way to get it for free. It's actually not a bad price, considering that you get to use it for how ever many years you'll play games. It's funny how people don't complain about a $50-60 video game or $15 a month for a MMORPG yet $39 for army builder is outrageous for some reason.

Vulkan_He'stan wrote:Is there any way i can get AB for free
Its a bit over priced $39.99!!

You can get it at Art's Game Store or theWarstore for $29.99.
That's the price at Art's. Neal is a bit more expensive but, if you reference the price with a link, he'll match it. That's how I got mine.

It is MORE THAN worth the $30.

@12thRonin...
You could have just used your second license for it.

I don't disagree that they should have gotten to you faster. You're right about that... but you did have a way you could've done it (I'm presuming you hadn't used your second license, because you didn't mention it... if you'd already used it, then please, disregard this comment).

Eric

The laptop was the second license. I have it on my laptop PC that I travel with and my desktop PC.

Well, honestly, I have found their Customer Service to be top notch. When I had the same situation they got to me in 3 days.

I don't know what you are complaining about.

He's complaining about the time it took the longer than three days?

Arander wrote:No there isn't a way to get it for free. It's actually not a bad price, considering that you get to use it for how ever many years you'll play games. It's funny how people don't complain about a $50-60 video game or $15 a month for a MMORPG yet $39 for army builder is outrageous for some reason.

Uh no. In a few years they'll come up with Ver 4 and you'll need to pay to upgrade as the support for Ver 3 dries up. Same as with Ver 2 and Ver 1.

Personally, I just use Google Docs - that way I can access and print my army lists from anywhere in the world. Since the FLGS I play at has friendly staff and a printer, I never need to worry about forgetting my army list.

It's a good program if you're bad at remembering your army's statistics - the output is a lot more readable than GW's summary sheets. If you read your codexes for fun and can say off the top of the head the stat-line for any unit in your army(ies), you'll find it a bit redundant.

Also, AB was a lot more valuable in 3rd and 4th editions where you had more options. Building an army with Dark Angels or Chaos or Orks really doesn't involve that much in the way of fact-checking.

Asmodai wrote:

Uh no. In a few years they'll come up with Ver 4 and you'll need to pay to upgrade as the support for Ver 3 dries up. Same as with Ver 2 and Ver 1.

Personally, I just use Google Docs - that way I can access and print my army lists from anywhere in the world. Since the FLGS I play at has friendly staff and a printer, I never need to worry about forgetting my army list.

It's a good program if you're bad at remembering your army's statistics - the output is a lot more readable than GW's summary sheets. If you read your codexes for fun and can say off the top of the head the stat-line for any unit in your army(ies), you'll find it a bit redundant.

Also, AB was a lot more valuable in 3rd and 4th editions where you had more options. Building an army with Dark Angels or Chaos or Orks really doesn't involve that much in the way of fact-checking.

I've gotta respectfully disagree.
This is (almost) all opinion.

As for the V4 of the software... Could be...
If you buy it now, and they upgrade it in 3 years, that's $10 a year for the software. Not too shabby, condisering the scores, if not hundreds of lists you'll make with it. When they upgrade it, the upgrade cost will be cheaper than it was to buy the product new, also.

If Google docs works for you, cool. The AB software is easier for those of us who don't have the time to memorize the books (I honestly DO envy that).

I'll capitulate that it MAY have been more valuable in 3e and 4e, but that doesn't detract from it's 5e value. There's still a LOT of variables in each army... and it also gives you the weapon breakdown, etc.
I don't think google docs, or any other product, will include all the faith point abilities your witchhunter army has available to it without you typing it in first (for example).

Eric