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I was told by an opponent that abbadon gets the benefit of all the marks. He is able to use all the daemon weapons(force and poison weapons) and he rolls 2D6 for attacks( possibly 16 attacks) ??? can someone clarify what abbadon is capable of in close combat..

i'm not a CSM player nor do i have a codex for them....

thx..

You heard right, he have a daemon weapon with 2D6 attacks ontop of his 4 or 5[?] attacka base. plus the benifits of all the marks. However his daemon weapopn is just generic i think, still ignores saves

GOOD to know.......i'm still confused about close combat with him, generic daemon weapons just ignore armour saves , correct???

Squig_herder:

That is incorrect. See page 46 of Codex: Chaos Space Marines. The entry for Abbadon says:

"The effect of these two powerful artefacts means that Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1, and he may re-roll any failed roll to wound in close combat."

And:

"*Abbadon has +D6 Attacks from his Daemon Weapon."

or could he choose to use a force weapon in an attempt to kill a multi-wound model???...

Ah i see where you getting confused ... his daemon weapons make him str8 that means Instant death for any thing toughness 4 or less. This means he be wounding on 2+ unless your toughness 7 or more and because of his daemon weaponry he can also re-roll failed wounds. But he only gets d6 extra attacks not 2d6.

Mr.Tangent:

On page 93 of Codex: Chaos Space Marines it states:

"A Daemon Weapon:
-Requires two hands to use.
-Is a power weapon.
-Adds an extra D6 Attacks in close combat. Roll the dice every time the model is about to attack. If the result is a 1, the bound Daemon within the weapon rebels - the model may not make any attacks this round and suffers one wound with no armour saves allowed.
-Has an additional ability that varies depending on the Mark given to the bearer, as described below."

now i've been told that he gets 2D6 attacks and D6 attacks....

and i figured he'd wound on a 2+ regardless...

Mr.Tangent:

Who told you that Abbadon gets 2D6 attacks and D6 attacks? Because the rules say that he gets 4+D6 Attacks.

Where are you getting this 2d6 from? I am looking at the codex right now and it says nothing of the sort. All that is said is that "Abbadon counts as equipped with a Daemon Weapon that doubles his Strength (to Strength 8, as shown in his profile) instead of the normal +1, and he may re-roll any failed roll to wound in close combat". Then there is a Asterisk that notes "*Abbadon has +D6 attacks from his Daemon Weapon"

So no, he doesn't get 2d6 at all.

I dont have the chaos dex infront of me so i maybe wrong on some things but i would bet my mopther that he gets +2D6 attacks, im sure it has that impossibly small "*" with the +2D6 attacks.

Hell, if im wrong you get my mother

Squig_herder wrote:I dont have the chaos dex infront of me so i maybe wrong on some things but i would bet my mopther that he gets +2D6 attacks, im sure it has that impossibly small "*" with the +2D6 attacks.

Hell, if im wrong you get my mother

Thanks for your mother, I just spelled out what the Asterisk(next to his Attacks stat of 4) Says.

Yet another lesson on why posting without the rulebooks open in front of you is a bad idea.

I'm not sure how he got that answer but an opponent said he got 2d6 + 4his base attacks.

i know he has a daemon weapon but can he choose to use a force/poison weapon at all. Or is he only equipt with the daemon weapon??

Abaddon runs into a combat.

Abaddon gets his base attacks plus charge bonus, no bonuses from having two weapons because it's a two hander.

Roll a d6, and add that to his attack number.

You get to reroll any failed wounds.

And that's all there is.

Abaddon charges in with 4+1+D6 attacks.

If you roll a '1' on the D6 you take a wound with no armour save allowed and do not attack this turn.

Your attack strength is 8.

You re-roll any failed to wound rolls.

Your opponent does not get an armour save.

It is not a Force Weapon.

Minimum Attacks (0)
Attacks between 6 & 11

Mr.Tangent wrote:I'm not sure how he got that answer but an opponent said he got 2d6 + 4his base attacks.

i know he has a daemon weapon but can he choose to use a force/poison weapon at all. Or is he only equipt with the daemon weapon??

I think that your opponent is trying to claim that since the book says that Abbaddon has the benefits of all the marks of chaos, he also gets to use all of the different daemon weapon options. For example, the khorne DW gives you 2d6 attacks instead of 1d6, the slaaneshi one is similar to (but not exactly the same as) a force weapon, and the nurgle weapon bestows poisoned attacks.

However, Abbaddon's DW does none of these things, and the effects of it are given explicitly in his rules, which others have quoted and mentioned previously.

Where your friend is getting confused is that Abaddon, in his fluff, is stated as having all the marks - so your friend is thinking he therefore gets +2D6 attacks for Mark of Khorne, Instant Death from Mark of Slaanesh, and Poisoned Weapon from Mark of Nurgle. In fact Abaddon has the Mark of Chaos Ascendent: it is all 4 together and has it's own special rules.

As such ALL Abaddon has, weapon wise, is:

- A S8 PW that strikes at initiative
- 4+D6 attacks each round
- Reroll to wound (handy against wraithlords and carnifexii mostly, but surprising how many 1s you can roll)

He does NOT have any other daemon weapon rule: RAW wise he does not have the Mark of Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh and is therefore not a "chaos lord with the mark of..." as required in the daemon weapon rule boxout

Edit:ninja'd! damnit...

so bascically it only works for chaos lords not named HQ's like typhus or abbadon? so if I gave a mark of khorne to my chaos lord he could have up to15 attacks correct?. since his base attacks are 3....

No, at no point was that stated.

Abaddon has Mark of Chaos Ascendent. MoCA does not appear on the boxout, so he follows none of the rules which say "lords with Mark of...." - note they specifically said he gets S8 not +1S which indicates he follows all the basic daemon weapon rules, i.e. no attacks if he rolls a 1.

Typhus is a chaos lord and has the mark of nurgle, and he has a daemon weapon, therefore he gets a poisoned weapon. In addition he has a special daemon weapon that is also a force weapon, therfore gets both benefits in one lovely parcel.

Kharn - is diferent from all others, as gorechild is not a daemon weapon.

and so on....

AS for MoK lord - you're forgetting the +1 attack for MoKhorne, and +1A for charging, and (this is normally the best bet) +1A and +1S for juggernaught. All told that gives you 3+1+1+1+12 for a possible 18S5 PW attacks.

Okso abbadon gets his usual 1d6 + 4 attacks ,he gets to re-roll wounds and any failed wounds are instant death right?. or no instant death from his weapon?.

S some clarification? PLEASE?. how many attacks does Abbadon get? theres so many different answers?...I realize he was in the old warhammer but obviously his stats have changed with the newer codex's....does abbadon benifit from any daemon weapons described on pg 93 in the CSM codex,why and why not? and why does typhus get to use it when it clearly says hes A HOST of the Destroyer hive not LORD?.. they both have daemon weapons?. who gets to use that daemon page than?. I dunno this is so confusing@!

Abaddon gets 4+d6 attacks. If he charges he gets 5+d6 attacks. His weapon is also S8 and ignores armor. It does not cause instant death, however models he attacks with a T4 or less will die due to double toughness strength.

Typhus has his own special rules, like Abaddon. That's why he gets to use his weapon as a force weapon. Also, it always wounds on a 4+.

SO I cant seem to figure this all out? if im going by abbadons PAGE 46 CSM codex and not by daemon weapons on PAGE 93...since abbadon has his OWN rules on his own page does he still take a wound on a roll of a 1?? since his daemon weapon is so different!?!?!?!

thats what im getting from all this anyway? that I dont go by the rules of daemon weapons on pg 93 for abbadon cause it sure wouldnt make any sense to go by
just a few lines on that page??? someone explain please?

it specifically says
Daemon Weapons

A symbol of greatness as much as a weapon of war the powers of a daemon weapon vary with the nature of the god who gifted it,a chaos lord has a daemon weapon appropriate to there patron god.
A Daemon Weapon
-Requires 2 hands to use
-is a power weapon
-adds and exstra d6 attack in close combat roll the dice everytime the model is about to attack if the result is a 1 the bound daemon within the weapon rebels - the model may not make any attacks this round and suffers 1 wound with no armour save allowed.
-Has an additional ability that varies depending on the mark givin to the bearer.
...how would it make sense if abbadon has to go by some of these rules but doesnt get any other bonuses???that doesnt make sense to me? either he goes by all these rules or none at all which would mean he would not take a wound if he rolled a 1!?

This is not confusing :/

Read Abaddon's entry. The section with the title Daemon Sword Drach'nyen and Talon of Horus.

Now in this section it states clearly that Abaddon's weapon COUNTS as a daemon weapon. EXCEPT it has the following changes.

Strength: 8 and re-roll failed to wound rolls.

Now read the GENERIC daemon weapon entry to find all the rules for a Daemon weapon.

It really is that simple...

Eraser - please stop with all the "!!" and use "edit" rather than double post We are not getting confused at all, and definitely not with the old Abaddon

It isnt that confusing: He has a daemon weapon and does not have a mark that is listed on page 93 - do you agree? You are TOLD it is a daemon weapon so you assume all the basic rules on pg93 until told otherwise

- As such, if he has a daemon weapon, he must follow the basic rule: 2 hands, +1 strength if not marked, wounded if rolls a 1 for the +D6 attacks, etc.

- You are then told he gets S8 instead of +1S AND gets to reroll to wound. This is IN ADDITION and does not mean he doesnt follow the other rules.

- as he doesnt have mark of slaanesh he does nto cause ID automatically, however WILL do for anything T4 or less as he is S8. This is simply down to the strength of the hit and nothing to do with the general daemon weapon rules.

Therefore: the rules on his entry are most definitely NOT self contained.

Typhus, if you look at the FAQ, is confirmed as being a lord of nurgle and therefore has a daemon weapon with poison that is ALSO a forceweapon due to his own rules.