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Why almost nobody use hawks in their list today? why they are bad ? i am not skilled player and dont know yet whats good and bad in this game.

Hawks get almost storm bolters, wings, skyleap and big blast plate

i thinks thats good, no?

It's not Hawks that are bad, it's Baharroth.

can you please say whats good and bad on them, or why and where and on what do you use them?
and Banaroth is bad cause its cost?

A str 3 primary weapon simply doesnt make it at the points you spend for Hawks.

I certainly wish it did...they're my favorite aspect.


Basically, they're nothing in CC. This leaves them as a shooting unit, and while VERY mobile, with a long range assault weapon...the STR of that weapon is just not enough to make them good troops.

They're great in certain situations like armies that are T3, especially if lightly armoured. However, with the amount of T4 out there along with power armour (or cover saves in the case of lightly armoured troopers. Lasblasters just dont make it.

....leaving the units BEST usage as simply rubberhawking the entire game...and at a steep price in points.

killing vehicles and dropping granade after deepstrike wont justify their cost?

The grenade pack comes down before deep-striking, that's important.

If they had the assault-after-DS rule (that I just made up I think), they would most likely rock.

"See that cluster of Guard? Yeah they can have this pie-plate."

"See that Vanquisher? Yeah I'm assaulting that now."

So close to being awesome. But the guns stink. They rock at killing vehicles, but the lasblasters are pointless against vehicles. It's a little silly really.

They need to have thier rules amended to counter walkers, aswell as skimmers.

They could do with some form of JSJ ability or improved deep-strikage (less scatter, can move after landing, etc).

Those points aside, their weapons will kill the right units & with the Era of IG with lots of mechenised themes & vehicle squadrens WS4 haywire grenades will rock many flavours of sauce. Oh and monoliths are boned too.

The biggest problem is that they lost so much in their most recent codex. Haywire grenades now only pen on a 6; and in the old codex the exarch was wild in cc, now the exarch lets them bounce. For what you get they are just overpriced now compared to the other eldar specialist troops.





Sliggoth

Yep, overpriced is the problem, plus conflicting abilities. the new eldar codex did a good job of resolving the many conflicting roles Aspect warriors had (removing power weapons from ranged Aspects, etc.), but seems to have missed it with the Hawks.

If you're really, really into using them, the Sunrifle makes them a bit more useful: the pin check can help vs. the T3 armies that lasblasters actually hurt. The problem, again, is that those T3 armies can also outshoot the Hawks, and their 4+ armor just ain't gonna cut it.

What would make them work? JSJ would have been a nice compensation, but Spiders already have that. DS and assault does indeed seem the best choice, possibly with Hit and Run. Given their fragility, it wouldn't be too uber, either.

If they were priced like other aspects at 16 it would certainly make them usable, despite how they don't excel in any single role.

The new codices have increased the effectiveness of anti-infantry fire, and made it cheaper almost universally. Because of this, non-mechanized infantry simply don't last long on the battlefield.

Since Hawks are jump infantry with current LoS rules it's nearly impossible to prevent your opponent from shooting at them with weaponry that will kill the whole unit.

Add this lack of protection onto a hefty price tag and under-performing weapons and you just get a losing combo.

If, for some reason, you really want to run jump infantry Warp Spiders are better in almost every way (stronger guns, more useful exarch upgrades, can move faster, JSJ, 3+ save) and are only 1 point more per model. Although I do realize that they're not competetive against well-built lists, I run spiders and they are a much stronger and more versatile unit.

The price is too high to use them.

However, you would buy them just for the models- they can have beautiful paint jobs.

I may have got it.

Plastic box of 12 models (2 sprues, 10 regs 2 exarchs)
Think DA boxed set here.

16pts per. (extra for Ex)

Jump infantry, Assault 1 S6 blasters, skyleap (Ex), pie plate (Ex), assault after DS (USR), fleet (USR), haywires glance on 3, pen on 4.

Basically making a faster, more anti-vehicle version on DAs.
Like Assault marines, but with great odds on taking on vehicles.

I use them in my army, and its got a 5-1-2 win lose ratio at the moment, playing in a play to win power gamer gaming group.

They are a pretty cheap unit. 6 of them with Intercept exarch and Hawks Talon coming in at 153 points. The reason alot of people dont like them is that they are a Niche Unit and alot of people can cover that niche with other parts of their Army.

However in my list they work perfectly, they can reliably hold a vehicle in place for a turn, usually being able to immobilise it and take the threatening weapons off. This allows my Wave Serpents and to fly past.

They are a very tempremental unit however. In one game they flew in, took a Lemen Russ (the one upgraded to armour 14) out, then flew onto an objective, blasted away the Squad holding it and leaving it contested, meaning I won.

Another game they took 20+ thunderfire shots to the face and died.

Alot of people seem to expect haywire Grenades to be an instant kill, yet that is not what the were designed to do. They get in and at absolute worst will stop it shooting for a turn, yet realistically they'll atleast destroy a weapon/immobilise it. and thats all they need to do.

I like that Swooping Hawks are basically airborne snipers. Though their guns could certainly use a boost. Increasing the gun from S3 AP5 to Assault 3 S4 AP4 or by increasing them from Assault 2 to Assault 3 would make them a lot more usable against the infantry they are 'supposed' to be able to kill.

5 Fire Dragons in a stripped down serpent cost about the same as your unit, Combo, and they can put out alot more hurt on a vehicle, doing alot more than just taking the weapons off. They also are pretty mobile and protected with a serpent.

you guys are maybe right, i just them to be good so nice models and nice idea of flying shooting and destroying vehicles, but they just cant do it all that good

but on the other isnt this "versality" what makes them playable? fast, shooty and nades with escape skyleap?

maybe if they would make them a bit better in close combat they would be most versalite unit?

If you want a good CC unit, you have banshees/scorpions/warlocks in serpents, jetlocks/jetseers/phoenix lords for that. They're the prettiest models out there but I agree with what most everyone has said. They're just too niche to be effective most of the time, especially when you have fire dragons in there, which will basically always be more effective at killing tanks than haywire grenades. And with the serpent you can give it EMLs or scatter lasers to help out with fire support, giving the dragons more of a chance to survive. I love them and I love barroth, but I have scorpions that infiltrate and banshees in serpents for CC, reapers and walkers for high volume fire, and dragons and even harlequins for tanks.

You know, what really ticks me off about Hawks is that they didn't even get a decent Apoc formation! Unless you're facing a flyer-heavy enemy and have no AA guns at all, their in-flight Intercept blows.

Sigh. I wish I could field these 22 Hawks I have SOMEHOW. Dadnabbit.