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Because with khans special rule it says all dedicated transports outflank
do raiders count when carring termies

Have you bought the Landraiders as a dedicated transport for the terminators? If yes (using the opption in their entry) then the answer is pretty obvious...

If you have bought them as a heavy support choice, then it's still pretty obvious.

i dont hav either
so it counts as a transport if it has guys in it so it can outflank

No. It counts as dedicated if it is bought as an upgrade for the terminators, or commander.

It is NOT dedicated if you buy the land raider as a Heavy support.

okay i guess if you say so

There's no 'if you say so.' That's the rules. Dedicated Transports are a special class of vehicle - they are an upgrade to the squad. Other vehicles can have transport capacity and carry troops, but that does not make them Dedicated Transports.

dietrich wrote:There's no 'if you say so.' That's the rules. Dedicated Transports are a special class of vehicle - they are an upgrade to the squad. Other vehicles can have transport capacity and carry troops, but that does not make them Dedicated Transports.

Quoted for reiteration. If you don't have Terminators in your list, or an HQ that can take an LR as a transport, then there is no way for you to outflank with LRs in your list. Are there any HQ choices that can take LRs as transports? I don't have my codex. The only one I can think of plausibly is Calgar...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the rules say specifically that outflanking/infiltrating is NOT extended to vehicles, just like commanders don't confer special abilities to the squad?

Here's the entry directly from the book: If a unit this ability [infiltrate] is deployed inside a vehicle, it cannot infiltrate.

Is this whole thing moot?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the rules say specifically that outflanking/infiltrating is NOT extended to vehicles, just like commanders don't confer special abilities to the squad?

Here's the entry directly from the book: If a unit this ability [infiltrate] is deployed inside a vehicle, it cannot infiltrate.

Is this whole thing moot?

Except Khan's special rule specifically states that the ability to outflank is also conferred to any Dedicated Transports that are used.

Codex Space Marines, page 136.

TERMINATOR SQUAD :
Dedicated Transport :
One Terminator Squad in the army may select a Land Raider of any type as a dedicated transport (see Heavy Support for points cost)

TERMINATOR ASSAULT SQUAD :
Dedicated Transport :
One Terminator Assault Squad in the army may select a Land Raider of any type as a dedicated transport (see Heavy Support for points cost)

As long as your army contains Land Raiders taken under either (or both) of those options, I'd assume those to be the ONLY Land Raiders to benefit from Khan's special rule, as any other Land Raiders would have to be selected as Heavy Support options.

I don't know any clearer way of answering this, so I hope it helps.

KaloranSLC : Just checked the codex, and these are the only two Dedicated Transport references for Landraiders.

TehCheator wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the rules say specifically that outflanking/infiltrating is NOT extended to vehicles, just like commanders don't confer special abilities to the squad?
Here's the entry directly from the book: If a unit this ability [infiltrate] is deployed inside a vehicle, it cannot infiltrate.
Is this whole thing moot?

Except Khan's special rule specifically states that the ability to outflank is also conferred to any Dedicated Transports that are used.

On the subject of a Rules conflict, the rules for Khan take precedence, allowing Dedicated Transports to Outflank, but not infiltrate.

I see. So we have the age old conundrum of codex vs. the rulebook. What is it now? Codexes take precedence? They change it so often I can't remember.

So basically if the land raider is a dedicated transport then it is conferred.

If it's taken as a heavy support then it cannot.

Easy enough, right?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:I see. So we have the age old conundrum of codex vs. the rulebook. What is it now? Codexes take precedence? They change it so often I can't remember.

So basically if the land raider is a dedicated transport then it is conferred.

If it's taken as a heavy support then it cannot.

Easy enough, right?

Right. Up to Fifth Edition, GW always went with the Rulebook beats Codex. Now, they've reversed course and Codex beats Rulebook.

dietrich wrote:Right. Up to Fifth Edition, GW always went with the Rulebook beats Codex. Now, they've reversed course and Codex beats Rulebook.

Sad, but true. Just another money grabbing tactic by GW, trying to get people to buy codecise just to keep up with new rules I expect.

Well I feel solid in my knowledge and sore in the back end as if I'd just been butt-ravaged by a power hungry, uncaring corporation.

dietrich wrote:Right. Up to Fifth Edition, GW always went with the Rulebook beats Codex. Now, they've reversed course and Codex beats Rulebook.

No. Its always been Codex>Rulebook.

Otherwise a necon player would be saying his Wraiths can ignore dangerous terrain checks and you'd be like "WRONG! Rulebook says terrain checks... so your special rule is pointless pointless words..." I don't think so.

Hymirl wrote:

dietrich wrote:Right. Up to Fifth Edition, GW always went with the Rulebook beats Codex. Now, they've reversed course and Codex beats Rulebook.

No. Its always been Codex>Rulebook.

Otherwise a necon player would be saying his Wraiths can ignore dangerous terrain checks and you'd be like "WRONG! Rulebook says terrain checks... so your special rule is pointless pointless words..." I don't think so.

I was going to say this, but thought better of it for some reason. However, now that it's been said, I will whole-heartedly agree.

Hymirl wrote:No. Its always been Codex>Rulebook.

My apologies, a quick check back on older publications confirms this to be true ( I had forgotten as my old group used this as a house rule and I hadn't bothered to check the official position until now).

I stand gratefully corrected in this, but at least it confirms what I typed Re: Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports under Khan's rules.

You can always Outflank Dedicated Transports as long as their cargo can Infiltrate. Page ninety-four for those interested.

RustyKnight wrote:You can always Outflank Dedicated Transports as long as their cargo can Infiltrate. Page ninety-four for those interested.

Or Scout

garret wrote:okay i guess if you say so

"Do you really have to guess"?*


*2 internets for quote i.d.

Actually it is NOT codex > rulebook, it is specific > general.

This is normally specific == codex and general == rulebook, however as a counter example Sweeping Advance, a BRB rule, is more specific and overrules Necron WBB, a codex rule.

When Fourth Edition Rulebook came out, the GW Dev Team noted that it was a chance to clean up some of the USRs (True Grit comes to mind). That was my Rulebook > Codex reference. And then there was the Wargear Book, which was supposed to give Grey Knights the heavy 4, rending assault cannon. I think the best way to put it, is that in general, GW has considered the most recent publication to supercede older publications. Now, they actually seem to be going away from that stance and taking a 'your rules in the codex are what you should play by. Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise.'