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1) MotF- Better with conversion beamer sitting on the sidelines shooting? Or better equipped to get close and dirty with the enemy using his servo to try and do some repair work on damaged dreads?

2)My current "Dread Drop" list is sporting a potential TWENTY kill points. Too many? Hard to avoid this many with 12 of them going to Dreads and DP's.

...whats a good kill point total for "Take all comers" or tournament lists?

Is the MoTF going to be dropping in as well? I would say the servo repair idea is better than the beamer. What types of dreads are you dropping? Ironclads shouldn't be "easy" kill points, and even Drop pods can be tough to crack with AV 12.

MotF with Servo Harness on a bike. Do it. You know you want to.

I'd love to see the list in question to get an idea of where the MOF would go.

1) A 5-strong scout squad with cloaks and a missile launcher would be a great spot for the MOF to set up. Fortify a ruins and climb in for hard to shoot shooty platform. As to the harness mounted MOF. I'm curious exactly what you are doing with the troops slots. If you actually are running 6 dreads and 6 drop pods, then I'm guessing you've just got minimum troops choices, if you are taking 2x tac squads in drop pods, you only really need one more drop pod to get 4 dreads on turn 1. So maybe you can use the scouts as the second troop choice.

2) Almost every KP you have is armor 12. I think you are fine.

Not all dreads need drop pods. You can outfit some with multimeltas and have them advance up the table.

One of the most interesting tournament builds I ran across was the Lysander, 3 iron clad drop pods, 10 scouts with snipers & a heavy bolter with camo cloaks,
2 tac squads with Meltas in pods and 3 tri lascannon predators

9 Lascannon shots after 3 ironclad droping in sure did scare me. However we never ended up playing.

Like Shep said, without knowing the rest of the army, how do we know where the Master is best suited to go?

Are your tac marines podding also, are they in rhinos, advancing, or are they standing back as fire support?

The fortifying a position for camo-cloak scouts is a solid plan.

Redbeard wrote:The fortifying a position for camo-cloak scouts is a solid plan.

It will also be awesome to see how much fire they suck up pre-drop.

I posted this list about a month ago...or rather...a list that basically evolved into this:


HQ

MotF w/Power Weapon, Combi-Flamer (ride in Drop Pod with Tacticals)

ELITE

Ironclad w/ Melta/H.Flamer, Drop Pod

Ironclad w/ Melta/H.Flamer, Drop Pod

Ironclad w/ Melta/H.Flamer, Drop Pod

TROOPS

(10)Tacticals w/ Flamer, Missle Launcher, Sgt w/Combi-Flamer, Drop Pod (including the MotF, thats 4 flamer Templates on the drop)

(5)Scouts w/BP's, Combat Blades, Sgt w/Power Weapon

(5)Scouts w/BP's, Combat Blades, Sgt w/Power Weapon

FAST

Land Speeder Storm w/H. Bolter

Land Speeder Storm w/H. Bolter

(3)Typhoon Squadron with H.Bolter/Typhoon Laucher

HEAVY

Dreadnought w/MM, Drop Pod

Dreadnought w/MM, Drop Pod

Dreadnought w/MM, Drop Pod

=1850


...that will prolly clear up what plans I have. I'm not giving chameoline or snipers to the scouts due to them being mainly end-game objective runners while riding in the storms.

I was actually thinking of doing this, having the Master of the Forge do repair work is much better than the Conversion Beamer.

Beamer is
--------------------S---------AP
Up to 18"-------6______-
18" to 42"------8______4
42" to 72"------10_____1

Most of the time it is going to be shooting in the 18" to 42" form. The main draw point of the Conversion Beamer is that strength 10 AP 1 attack, but most of the time being right at the edge of the table and having the target right on the edge of their side would still be too close to get this. 20 points for an on average strength 8 AP 4 weapon sounds good, but for not spending those 20 points you get +1 to repair result, flamer, twin-linked plasma pistol (Plasma on important guy >_> ), and an extra servo arm attack. As this will rely heavily on the Dreadnought's performance you want to have them fighting at thier best. Putting him on the bike sounds great as he gets to rush around to repair everything but even then it would be on a roll of 4+ (He has Servo Harness by default making it 4+ instead of 5+). That has a 50% chance of the Master of the Forge rushing across the battlefield to fail the repair of a crippled Ironclad. Instead I went with the servitors, if you just use two Tech Servitors it'll cost 35 points to improve that roll to repair to a 2+, as you only need 5+ now. But, because of what the Servitors come with, my Master of the Forge has an additional two Heavy Bolter Servitors to act as support and sheilds for the two Tech Servitors. Though having five Tech Servitors (70 points total for Servitors, 170 Total for HQ choice) would be nice as you would definitely be repairing everytime and still have some backup Tech Servitors in case they get shot at too much; which will be really likely. But, I guess it all comes down to speed verses reliability. You could just try to keep the Master of the Forge near the Dreadnoughts, but it's really important to that army and you should try to take as little chances as possible with it.

You could also just add another Master of the Forge I guess.

I don't like the Typhoons much personally, I think MM/HF speeders could serve you better for cheaper.

I'm a big fan of the LS Storms

If you have the MotF sit back with a conversion beamer and sling shots at things then Shep's idea with fortifying the ruins/terrain is a good idea. You can get 2+ cover on the scouts with their camo cloaks.

Honestly I think I like that better because in order to reliably repair things you'd need to take a couple of servitors, otherwise you won't be passing your test (iirc its a base of 5+ and each servitor adds +1 to the roll but correct me if I'm wrong) to repair the dreads frequently enough to really dedicate him to that role.

Caffran9 wrote:I don't like the Typhoons much personally, I think MM/HF speeders could serve you better for cheaper.

I'm a big fan of the LS Storms

If you have the MotF sit back with a conversion beamer and sling shots at things then Shep's idea with fortifying the ruins/terrain is a good idea. You can get 2+ cover on the scouts with their camo cloaks.

Honestly I think I like that better because in order to reliably repair things you'd need to take a couple of servitors, otherwise you won't be passing your test (iirc its a base of 5+ and each servitor adds +1 to the roll but correct me if I'm wrong) to repair the dreads frequently enough to really dedicate him to that role.

Master of the Forge has a servo pack by default making it 4+. Only Tech servitors add 1 to the result the gun ones don't help at all. Also the Techmarine doesn't need to stay in the ruin for it to be bolstered if you have one it can do it to any ruin in the deployment zone at the beginning of the game. So he can do this regardless of the MotF's equipment. But you're right it is 5+ by default now.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/224408.page

Its how I'd do it.

Whats up with the landspeeders? Why are your scouts equiped for close combat.. Dredenoughts will do better & remove the need for the scouts to have to engage anything? Worried about things out-running your dred CC maddness, box them in & go for priority targets..

I guess it's because they're cheap scoring units and the relativly high point cost from the Dreadnoughts would make the scouts a better choice than a tacticl squad.

The scouts could be this list's Achilles' Heel.

G

I gotta agree on the scout thing... why are they equipped to make a charge like that?

You'd be better off letting them set up and put rounds down range, allowing them to leapfrog up... I'd probably say double up on the MoF, give them both bikes, and set yourself up to pick off key targets with the scouts.


My suggestion: drop them from the list, or drop the tacticals and replace them with more scouts for the sake of redundancy while not losing the advantage of advancing your line.

I need more experience versus storms...

I think i'm getting a game or two versus them this weekend, I'll feel better advising after that. Until then, having drop pods gives you an opportunity to combo speeders with locator beacons. I think that plumping for a few locators and changing your speeders into MM/HF would be very tactical... and very fun. It also gives you EXCELLENT late game control of your fast scorers. Holding the storms off table against shooty armies, then being able to precision place them on arrival, possibly right on top of an objective, would be worth the 40 points (for the drop pod assault pods to all have them).

If that gag ends up working for you, then absolutely keep the MOF in his harness. Then the tac drop pod can locator beacon in the perfect spot and flamer away, and has nasty CC potential, especially versus vehicles. I think you should make their missile launcher a multi-melta and grab a meltabomb for the sarge if you can.

Looks like I've gone and suggested you spend more points in a really tight list. Only thing I can see to cut would be to knock the speeders down to 2. I think 2 MM/HF speeders with 4 different locator beacons landing on turn 1 to choose from is worth having one less speeder. Plus after the initial drop, all the other drop pods can use those beacons, i know drop pods have good tricks to control arrival location, but nothing beats "no scatter".

Excuse me for being dense, but this interests me. Where does the codex let you take Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support?

Cerine wrote:Excuse me for being dense, but this interests me. Where does the codex let you take Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support?

Master of the Forge. There's a box in the unit's army list section that states that Dreadnoughts can be taken as both Elites and HS.

Ah, I see it. Thanks.

Last edition, I ran 6 dreads and tac squads w/razorbacks. I guess Drop Pods are a cheaper choice, and with Tactics you get two scoring units instead of one, but I liked having the movement/screening.

Speeders are a natural points filler and with good firepower.

n0t_u wrote:

Caffran9 wrote:I don't like the Typhoons much personally, I think MM/HF speeders could serve you better for cheaper.

I'm a big fan of the LS Storms

If you have the MotF sit back with a conversion beamer and sling shots at things then Shep's idea with fortifying the ruins/terrain is a good idea. You can get 2+ cover on the scouts with their camo cloaks.

Honestly I think I like that better because in order to reliably repair things you'd need to take a couple of servitors, otherwise you won't be passing your test (iirc its a base of 5+ and each servitor adds +1 to the roll but correct me if I'm wrong) to repair the dreads frequently enough to really dedicate him to that role.

Master of the Forge has a servo pack by default making it 4+. Only Tech servitors add 1 to the result the gun ones don't help at all. Also the Techmarine doesn't need to stay in the ruin for it to be bolstered if you have one it can do it to any ruin in the deployment zone at the beginning of the game. So he can do this regardless of the MotF's equipment. But you're right it is 5+ by default now.

I forgot about his pack so its a 4+ ... this means if you make 6 repair rolls in a game, you'll get 3 of them. Still not consistant enough to devote the points the MotF costs to as his main role. It would need to be a 3+ or ideally a 2+ in order for it to be worthwhile, and the only way to acheive that is to take servitors, which cost more points and IMO, it isn't worth it.

I'm aware the MotF doesn't have to stay in the ruins, that is obvious. Perhaps you misunderstood the idea I was presenting: If he takes a conversion beamer he can set up shop in the ruins with the scouts (with camo cloaks) and snag a 2+ cover save from them as well as ablative wounds should he need them, so he can fire his conversion beamer safely for the whole game. The scouts are also a scoring unit, so they're great for camping the home objective which in turn prevents the need to ensure one of your other units is on it or able to get back to it in time at the end of the game. I am not saying this is amazing by any stretch, but it seems a better use of the MotF's points than trying to make repair rolls agaisnt odds that are mediocre at best.