Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Part 1: Does the valkyrie/Vendetta special rule "grave chute insertion" constitute "deepstriking" as per special rules and wargear?

Example: A Inq with mystics allows a "free" shot to be taken against deepstriking units.

IG Codex pg 58 Grave Chute Insertion:
If the Valkyries has moved flat out, passengers may still disembark, but they must do so as follows. Nominate any point over which the valkyrie moved over and deploy the squad as if it were deep striking onto that point. If the unit scatters, every model must immediately take a dangerous terrain test. If any of the models can not be deployed, the unit is destroyed as described in the 1-2 result on the deep strike mishap table.


Part 2: Does this mean that if one of the models fails its dangerous terrain check the whole squad dies? or only if one of the survivors of the dangerous terrain check can not be deployed is the whole unit destroyed?

Yes, it counts as deep striking in all respects, except that if you mishap you die.

Part 2: no that is incorrect, it only happens if a model cannot deploy legally. If it is taking a Dangerous Terrain Check, it must have deployed legally already.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:Yes, it counts as deep striking in all respects, except that if you mishap you die.

Part 2: no that is incorrect, it only happens if a model cannot deploy legally. If it is taking a Dangerous Terrain Check, it must have deployed legally already.

Ahh i see what your saying. I was simply confused by the word "immediately" I thought it implied you must take the check as soon as the scatter result was made regardless of deployment circumstances. Your saying you wait deploy the models and then they all make a single difficult terrain check regardless of their deployment circumstances?

Example A:
Model Deepstrikes roll scatters
whole squad does dang terr check
results are implemented
deployed at scatter location
If squad can't be deployed it is destroyed
diff/dangerous terrain checks etc or checked for again

Eample B:
Models deepstrike roll scatters
whole squad is deployed
If squad can't be deployed it is destroyed
then dangerous terrain for the whole squad is generated irrespective of terrain considerations.
results are implemented

I understand the deepstrike bit since it actually references it.. i just am wanting some clarity on how dangerous this really is to use.

What you do, is deploy them as per the deep strike rules, if they scatter, but don't mishap, take dangerous terrain tests for each model as normal, then remove the ones that die, and carry on with your life.

If they Scatter and then Mishap, they are destroyed, with no need for Terrain tests.

K. Seeing it slightly differently I think. Goes in the following order -
1) Choose a point you pass over.
2) Roll the scatter die.
3a) If you don't scatter, just treat it as a normal deepstrike landing if you happen to have chosen terrain, subject to the can't place models of course.
3b) If you scatter, before you roll how far, roll dangerous terrain for every model. It does say immediately, and where you land doesn't matter, simply that you deviated is enough.
4) See if in the location, or new location if 3b was the result, if there are models that can't be placed for whatever reason. If so, squad is destroyed.

Only question on that is whether this could mean a second dangerous terrain test. The one it calls for on deviation is just because of the grav chute and deviating, and is irregardless of the terrain itself. I could definitely see an argument for deviate, dangerous terrain test and Land in terrain, dangerous terrain test.

I'm not so sure you are actually deepstriking for the purposes of things like mystics when using grav chute insertion. It only says you deploy the squad as if it were deepstriking, meaning I think the deep strike rules only apply to this situation until the models have been successfully deployed and no sooner either. This means in my mind they are not affected by the restrictions on Deep Striking either (although this is largely meaningless since they count as moving for shooting purposes due to having disembarked from a transport and cannot assault since it is not open topped.)

Also as a note, deployed doesn't indicate they are using a deployment method, deployed is also a term used to describe models disembarking from any vehicle, I think this isn't a deep strike but rather a disembark which happens to be similar in how you execute it to a deep strike.

Also with regards specifically to the mystics, They could definitely NOT work on grav chutes even if it is a full fledged deep strike because they specify they work against a "deep striking unit [that] enters play" and a unit aboard a vehicle on the table has already entered play.

It also brings up the point whether Stormtroopers dropping out of a Valk or Vend get to reroll the scatter.

The phrase as if it were deepstriking to me does not = deep striking...

You can only take one dangerous terrain test per turn, so that doesnt really matter!

I wouldn't count it as deep striking as they're not deploying from reserve

colonel584 wrote:I wouldn't count it as deep striking as they're not deploying from reserve

Incorrect. You don't have to be coming from reserve to count as Deep Striking. Gate of Infinity, Veil of Darkness and Grav Chute Deployment are all examples of Deep Striking without arriving from reserves.

Indeed, using the rules for Deep Striking means you are Deep Striking. Just not in the "Wheeee, terminator teleportation!" sense.