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OK--in a recent game, an opponent of mine and I had an interesting situation, which I know we did not play correctly. I want to get as much clarification as possible on how it SHOULD have been played, and so I call to the dakka community.

Dawn of War. Annihilation. My tau versus his new IG. He deploys a veteran guard squad w 3x meltaguns in a chimera, in reserve. He has Creed, allowing him to outflank with this unit, as this unit is dedicated as a 'Scout' unit per Creed's rules (which, btw, he did not explain to me when putting the unit into reserve, so I was not expecting them to outflank...sigh).

So, on 2nd turn, my hammerhead and broadside have come onto the board edge and moved forward, not a full 6"--more like 3 or 4" max. They are extremely close to the right board edge as well--the hammerhead is appx 1" away from board edge, and the broadsides are about 5-6" away. He attempts to move the chimera on directly behind the hammerhead. We determine he can't, b/c there is about .0001" between him and my hammerhead. So instead, he declares a ramming attack against the hammerhead, starting from off the board edge (since the unit is deployed in reserves--this is correct per moving on from reserves rules). He moves appx 4" before the front hull of the chimera makes contact with the Hammerhead. The hammerhead fails it's Dodge roll, so does not avoid the chimera's ram. The chimera's ram fails to do any damage (+2 for armor, +1 for tank, +1 for moving 4", needs a 6 to damage rear armor of hammerhead, and fails). So he stops the chimera where it is at.

He then proceeds to shoot me in my rear armor with the multi-laser in the turret of the chimera. This destroyed the hammerhead on a penetrating 5 roll on the vehicle damage chart. We've since determined this was illegal, as he was not allowed to ram and shoot, per ramming rules. He also pops the top on the chimera and shoots the broadsides with 3 meltaguns and 2 lasguns. This results in 3 melta wounds and 3 lasgun wounds, and kills the ethereal with the broadside unit (2 of 3 meltagun shots), and 1 of the 3 broadsides--and puts a wound on another. BTW, we determined the broadsides were in cover, b/c one of the unit of 4 (3x broadsides + ethereal) was directly behind the hammerhead (which was now scrap), and one of them was behind area terrain--so 50% of unit was in cover.

Broadsides then get hit by Psyker Battle Squad's leadership negative ability, and proceed to flee off the board at the end of his shooting phase.

So--I know we did the following wrong:
- He did not declare that his veteran squad in reserves was using Creed's special ability, granting them the 'Scouts' special rule
- He shot his multi-laser after ramming

Did we do anything else wrong?

How is it your Hammerhead was 1" away from the board edge but his Chimera was able to move 4" onto the table before contacting it? I think something isn't coming across quite right in your description.


But yeah, it sounds like besides those two major errors it sounds like everything else was okay.

If he was not able to place the whole of his tank on the board when moving on, they it would have been destroyed.

psf3077 wrote:If he was not able to place the whole of his tank on the board when moving on, they it would have been destroyed.

there is absolutely no rule in the rulebook which supports the way you and your friends choose to play the game.

I'd also like to point out that the veterans shouldn't have been able to shoot from the chimera, as the chimera wasn't able to shoot.
P.66 + P.69 of the rulebook.

The veterans can shoot out of a chimera regardless of whether or not the vehicle itself is allowed to shoot, they are two seperate units, the only thing that effects whether or no the veterans can shoot is if the chimera moved over 6" which it did not.

psf3077 wrote:If he was not able to place the whole of his tank on the board when moving on, they it would have been destroyed.

Ian1138 wrote:I'd also like to point out that the veterans shouldn't have been able to shoot from the chimera, as the chimera wasn't able to shoot.
P.66 + P.69 of the rulebook.

ITT people who don't bother to learnt the rules

yakface wrote:
How is it your Hammerhead was 1" away from the board edge but his Chimera was able to move 4" onto the table before contacting it? I think something isn't coming across quite right in your description.


But yeah, it sounds like besides those two major errors it sounds like everything else was okay.

Maybe this picture helps...

Drunkspleen wrote:

psf3077 wrote:If he was not able to place the whole of his tank on the board when moving on, they it would have been destroyed.

there is absolutely no rule in the rulebook which supports the way you and your friends choose to play the game.

Well, you aren't allowed to move a unit so that it is off the table, so moving on from reserve would force you to arrive in a spot on the table. You aren't destroyed, you just can't come in there.

Ian1138 wrote:I'd also like to point out that the veterans shouldn't have been able to shoot from the chimera, as the chimera wasn't able to shoot.
P.66 + P.69 of the rulebook.

I checked those pages. The rules say occupants cannot fire from a transport if the transport is stunned/shaken, but they don't say occupants can't fire if the vehicle can't.

Ian1138 (and possibly Waaaaaaagh!) is incorrect. As the transport only moved 4" it only moved at combat speed. Passangers may shoot if a transport moves at combat speed regardless if the vehicle can shoot or not.

To Ram a tank must move at it's highest movement rate possible IE Cruising speed. Cruising Speed=no fire for passengers

we determined the broadsides were in cover, b/c one of the unit of 4 (3x broadsides + ethereal) was directly behind the hammerhead (which was now scrap), and one of them was behind area terrain--so 50% of unit was in cover.

A squad must have a majority in cover to get cover not just half.

Webbe wrote:Ian1138 (and possibly Waaaaaaagh!) is incorrect. As the transport only moved 4" it only moved at combat speed. Passangers may shoot if a transport moves at combat speed regardless if the vehicle can shoot or not.

Unless the Vehicle is Shaken or Stunned

Page 67 wrote:Crew shaken & crew stunned
Passengers may not shoot from the vehicle in their next Shooting phase, but are otherwise unaffected.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

we determined the broadsides were in cover, b/c one of the unit of 4 (3x broadsides + ethereal) was directly behind the hammerhead (which was now scrap), and one of them was behind area terrain--so 50% of unit was in cover.

A squad must have a majority in cover to get cover not just half.

You sure? Page 22:
If half or more of the models in the target unit are in
cover, then the entire unit is deemed to be in cover and
all of its models may take cover saves.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:To Ram a tank must move at it's highest movement rate possible IE Cruising speed. Cruising Speed=no fire for passengers

No!

I quote:

RB page 57 wrote:A vehicle that travels up to 6" is moving at combat speed.
A vehicle that travels more than 6" and up to 12" is moving at cruising speed.

The vehicle moved 4".

ITT Yet more people who dont know rules (Except myself and Don ofc)

And yet, somehow Don isn't quite so pompous about it....



Once a unit is on the table, there is a rule saying you can't move any of it off the table.
There is no rule saying you must move it fully onto the table when it is 'walking on'.

coredump wrote:There is no rule saying you must move it fully onto the table when it is 'walking on'.

This would appear to be the case.

As I read it, and I'm open to correction, the rules for arriving from reserve (specifically that which refers to measuring the arrival move) coupled with the diagram on p12 of the rulebook would indicate that a 6" long model which moves onto the table by 4" is going to have 2" of it's rear end dangling in the breeze !

I can find nothing indicating that this would be an illegal position in which to leave the model, as the move would have been measured correctly in accordance with the rules.

As I said, I'm open to correction on this, but please cite your source when correcting me.

don_mondo wrote:

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

we determined the broadsides were in cover, b/c one of the unit of 4 (3x broadsides + ethereal) was directly behind the hammerhead (which was now scrap), and one of them was behind area terrain--so 50% of unit was in cover.

A squad must have a majority in cover to get cover not just half.

You sure? Page 22:
If half or more of the models in the target unit are in
cover, then the entire unit is deemed to be in cover and
all of its models may take cover saves.

Then GW needs to learn what the word "Majority" means.

Page 22:

Sometimes, a unit will only be partially in cover, with some of its models in cover and some not. In this case you must decide if the majority of the unit is in cover.

GW rules be inconsistent? That's inconceivable!

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

stormtitan wrote:I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Straight outta the Oxford American Dictionary:

Majority: The greatest part of a group or class

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Straight outta the Oxford American Dictionary:

You've never seen the Princess Bride, I take it.

"Inconcievable"!!!

You are confusing fluff wording, for rules explanations...

dietrich wrote:GW rules be inconsistent? That's inconceivable!

QFT.

Gw Have never ever made a contradictory rule ever!

What is QFT?

Sazzlefrats wrote:What is QFT?

If you hold your cursory over it, it should tell you.

But, it means Quoted For Truth. It's basically 'I agree with you'.

dietrich wrote:

Sazzlefrats wrote:What is QFT?

If you hold your cursory over it, it should tell you.

But, it means Quoted For Truth. It's basically 'I agree with you'.

I originally thought it means Quit Fething Talking, as it usually came after some kind of assertion.