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i want to finish off my lizards to make a solid 2000 point list. i need some suggestions on what i should get and what type of army it'll turn out to be, something balanced for friendly play perferably.

i have:
1 slann
40 saurus
24 skinks
8 cold ones
3 terradons

thanks

based on what you have, maybe something like this:

Slann
- general
- BSB
- scroll
- scroll
- power stone
- plaque of tepok
- immune to non magic weapons
- free dice for casting

scar vet (one of the cold one riders)
- light armor
- cold one
- sword of might
- enchanted shield

20 saurus
- full command

20 saurus
- fullcommand

10 skink skirmishers

10 skink skirmishers

5 cold one riders
- full command
(scar vet here)

3 terredons

stegedon

3 salamanders w/ +1 crew

2000 on the dot. youd have to buy a steg and the salamanders. sallies are still good to push panic tests, 3 might be overkill, you could xrop down to 2 to beef up something else. your magic is ok, your slann should be able to dish out some paint.

personally i would drop the steg, drop the sallies down to 2, take the scrolls off the slann, drop the ench shield from the scar vet, giving him a normal shield instead then add in a skink priest with an engine of the gods, diadem of power and a dispel scroll. matched with the slaan, this would be a decent magic oriented list. if you more into CC i would pick up the carno model, since he isnt large anymore he can hide a lil better until you wanna rip something up.

that looks like somethign that id want to go with, i think i would put in the eotg instead of the regualr steg, im torn between salamanders and razordons, i know this has been beaten to death but is there a clear cut when to use a sally vs when to use a razordon?

both are pretty killy across the board. Having said that, they both have specific strengths as well:

razordons are great for hunting small units you don't want to waste a charge or magic on (marauder horsemen, warhounds, harpies, etc.), and weaker RNF like executioners or skeletons. Also, being SnS flank deniers, I've seen a unit of even 2 hunting packs pull a wide range of units apart on the charge: they crippled a unit of GW marauders, wiped a unit of 12 executioners, and even scared off a unit of cold one knights by killing 2 and watching them fail their panic check

salamanders are good vs. things with high armour saves like chaos warriors (heavy cavalry as well, if you can catch them on a flank) or on big blocks like zombies or goblins. Even medium blocks of ~20 are vulnerable as well.

Best of all, a unit of 3 hunting packs, while pricey, is no slouch in close combat. They can handle almost any unit that hunts warmachines, and I've actually seen some smaller blocks take a turn or two of shooting, charge the unit, then auto-break to outnumbering fear-causers. 6 WS3 S5 attacks can hurt!

As you can probably tell, the jury is still out on which I prefer: that's why my 2250 will likely have 2 of each, so I have the right tool for the right job (and razordons do a good job of babysitting salamanders )

hmmmm, i think in my frst list at 2000 im going to go wth just razordons mostly because i like the look of the model. the salamanders just look too strange to me and i hate templates. that being said ive noticed the sadly short range of both, do you leave them in reserve and wait for the enemy or do they better as flankers and enemy harassment?

Here's my suggestion using what you have and assuming that you would convert a few Skinks into priests.
L&H:
Slann
- BSB
- Two Disciplines
- Full Lore and Mundane Resistance
- Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
Priest
- Level Two
- Cloak of Feathers
- Dispel Scroll
Priest
- Level Two
- Plaque of Tepok
- Dispel Scroll
Scar Vet
- Cold One
- Enchanted Shield
- Venom of the Firefly Frog
- Spear

CORE:
20 Saurus
- Standard and Musician
20 Saurus
- Standard and Musician
10 Skinks
10 Skinks

SPECIAL:
6 Saurus Cavalry
- Standard and Musician
3 Terradons
Stegadon

Ten PD and six DD with two scrolls. Pretty magic oriented with some decent close combat to back it up.
AND
All you need is a Stegadon for this! Drop the Scar Vet in the Cavalry for a solid hammer unit to run a flank. Put the Stegadon on the other and one Skink unit on each side. Keep the Slann near the Saurus and use the priests to expand the Slann's magic missle range.

bleedge wrote:...that being said ive noticed the sadly short range of both...

yes, there's really no long range shooting for the lizardmen (the 36" stegadon boltthrower doesn't count, it's usually just an outside shot at a poisoned hit whenever you're march blocked anyway), but the short range is nice and nasty. I do one of two things with hunting packs:
-harass near the middle of the table, if I'm facing a primarily shooty army. At max range (both about 12"), it's fairly easy to flee charges, and many people can't be bothered to charge them if it takes them away from the battle lines anyway.
-run up a flank, hidden behind something like saurus cav; a 12" march lets them move pretty quickly, particularly if you send them through terrain. They can then pester flanks, and whittle away rank bonuses. This job is usually handled by skink skirmishers however, and I leave the hunting packs near the middle for enough shooting to force an opponent to rush his units forward and into combat.

PS I like studderingdave's suggestions. magic-licious slann + dispel-licious priest on the engine is a nasty magic combo, and can put you over 10 PD, with 8 DD (or roll with 13 PD against armies like dwarves or ring of hotek dark elves!) as well. I like my Slann in temple guard (simply because stubborn ItP warriors w/ T4 and 2+ saves is hard to pass up. How many times have you seen a big unit of chaos warriors actually get wiped, rather than run down? Me neither.) Makes for a very obvious target/VP sink, which makes it very easy to use to your advantage when you know exactly where all your opponent's attention will be focussed. I call it the block on a stick; dangle it out there, and watch your opponent bite

if i use something like studderingdave's list, is it advisable to drop a sally/razor and make one of the saurus regiments temple gaurd? i dont know if i really like the change because i like the way the army is looking as it is but im afraid my 400+ point slann is going to be eaten alive. has anyone run a lone slann? does it work? if i get temple guard can they still march right along the table like the saurus regiment?

Temple Guard are a good investment. A unit of twenty will hold well and keep the Slann protected very well. A Slann can work alone, you just need to kit him right and make sure you are mindful of where it is and where the enemy is so it doesn't get killed. Temple Guard will work just like a normal block with a Slann in it, so they will keep up the the Saurus no problem.

i was looking at the slann disciplines and if it was in a temple guard unit with magic resistance 3 and the immunity to normal weapons, does that mean that the only way the enemy could hurt him was to destroy the entire unit of temple guard and then kill him with a magic weapon in cc? or even if he was ran alone as long as you stayed away from a magic weapon weilding hero he'd be unkillable...right?

Magical shooting (skaven guns, dwarf bolters, etc) can tag him too if he's out on his own, though he does have that 4+ ward, and can get regen too if those magic shots aren't flaming as well. If he's in a unit it isn't impossible that a magic stone thrower (dwarven, maybe screaming skull catapult?) can slam onto him, you fail your look out, fail your ward, and take enough D6 wounds to lose him that way.

MR(3) is pretty beefy, but IF spells can punch through that, so magic could grab him too. Does pit of shades still spell doom for slaan? Or did they add something about his palanquin avoiding that? Cause that would reach into the unit and suck him down too.

- Salvage

so my all mighty slann mage of invicibilty just failed

He's still a tough cookie when chilling with his temple guard buddies, especially if he's a BSB and his TG have the "I cause fear banner" so out-numbering by fear causers isn't a problem. Honestly those 2 things make the unit more resilient in my mind than loading survivability stuff onto the slann. As far as him living I'd be more concerned about miscasting him to death

- Salvage

ok so i have devised a list

Slann:400
Soul of Stone and Focus of Mystery
Diadem of Power and Dispel Scroll
BSB

Skink Priest: 405
level 2
Plaque of Tepoc
EOTG

Saurus x20: 250
full command

Skinks x11: 77

Skinks x11: 77

Terradons x3: 90

Temple Guard x16: 291
Full Command
Totem of Prophecy

Cold one Cav x5: 250
Full Command
Jaguar Standard

this comes out to 1840, enough for a scar vet on a cold one kitted out, or another skink priest kitted out, or 2 hunting packs what do you think?

EDIT: sorry the slann was the bsb just forgot to mention it and the list actually toals 1840 so i get a few more points to play with.

I would go one of two routes here. Each will beef up one unit to make it much better:
Skink Chief on Terradon with Staff of the Lost Sun, Venmon of the Firefly Frog, shield and light armour. (139)
OR
Scar Vet on Cold One with Enchanted Shield, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Spear and light armour. (140)

ill probably take the saurus on a cold one, the skink cheif looks fun but that unit of cold ones needs to break the enemy on the charge and then use their standard to run them down, also, do i have enough magic in my list? im going all out with 800 points in my two mages and then thats it.

you really have to make a choice if you want to be truly magic heavy. your list is a good balance of magic and combat.

It's a tough call between the cold one scarvet or 2 salamanders. I really can't decide myself, I guess it comes down to what you want to model. I might pick the sallies because they aren't stupid, operate in a unique way and flame templates can be brutal in fantasy, against tightly packed units.

The cold one scarvet has his uses too, including being stuffed in somebody's face and relying on his monster save to keep him alive, and a BSB + cold blooded to lock down until help or cleansing flair / engine whoomp arrives. I'd probably build him differently though, the burning blade is just too sexy and too cheap to pass up. It can't be much more than spear + VotFF, 20 points is so so cheap.

As to your list, the only thing missing in my mind is BSB on the slann. I'd drop the cold one champion (20 pts for not much return) and 2 skinks (14 pts), which gives you the points for slann BSB (25) and scarvet on cold one w/ e.shield, burning blade, light armor (146). Then, all that is required is rocking out.

- Salvage

is the sheild of mirrored pool worth considering for a scar vet on the cold one? it seems to be very good but its only going to reflect a spell once, is it worth the 30 points to protect the cold ones form magic missles?

I would think that it would be better on a block unit to protect it more and even then, only if you know that the enemy is going to bring a lot of MM and is going to cast them often. I feel like the Maiming Shield would be better for the extra attack.