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So here's my first attempt at an eldar list with models I have on hand to take on mostly everyone. I've used all these guys in killteam and my own zombie scenarios and 1000 point games, but all without vehicles. So this is my first real list for regular gameplay. Let me know if the link doesn't work, I just want to see if it works at all... It'll be the last sheet in the document entitled 'eldar'. Thanks everyone!

Well, I'm inclined to review the army list, but I'm not inclined to down load the file.

yeah you should paste it here

Well it's only 74 kb and 4 other people have downloaded it already... Half of the reason for posting this is to get a feeling of what I can do to streamline the thing. I love using excel but I know there's a lot more I can do that'll make the list easier to read and easier to work with.

That being said, I'll try out a straight cut and see how it turns out so you guys feel more comfortable. If it doesn't work it'll be a fun little project to see how to translate a spreadsheet properly without too much work. I'll get back with everyone in a little bit, it's time for me to get some work done at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well the formatting didn't work out properly so here's the abbreviated list:

HQ
1 Farseer w/guide/doom/fortune/stones
150

Elite 1:
10 scorpions w/exarch/claw/infiltrate
207

Elites 2:
7 banshees w/exarch/executioner/serpent with EML's
254

Elites 3:
5 harlequins
90

Troops 1:
10 dire avengers w/serpent with EML's
240

Troops 2:
20 guardians w/warlock/embolden/ scatterlaser platform
205

Heavy Support 1:
1 Wraithlord w/brightlance/EML
155

Heavy Support 2:
3 War Walkers w/2 sets of EMLS/1 set of scatterlasers
200

Total:
1501

Remember that these are the models I have on hand... I do have another 10 avengers with all the exarchs, 1 unassembled falcon, a bunch of rangers (that I'm very underwhelmed when using in terms of earning points back), and a bunch of overpriced harlequins. I also have another 10 guardians and warlock for another small squad. That's the extent of what I have. Any advice to rekit out what I have to fit a better list would be much appreciated!

Looks fairly solid. The only thing what would concern me is the Harlequins, they're probably not going to get much, if any excitement because they will be hoofing it the whole way. You seems low on anti-armor particularly high stuff like Av14. Perhaps drop the harlequins and find a way to work a few more high strength weapons in there. Perhaps via your Falcon.

I know I'm low on AT... I would love to use the falcon and put a bright lance with the pulse laser. And maybe do the much hated falcon/fire dragon combo. But for now I don't have the models and won't be buying much.

Harlequins are more or less useless but I had exactly 90 points left over. I thought perhaps putting them towards another dire avenger squad in lieu of the falcon not being put together yet. What would you think of that? I'd have 3 troops choices at that point.

Is there anything else you might suggest?

I'd replace the Banshees with the second Avenger squad, the reasons being that 10 Scorpions will more than suffice for counter-assault at 1500, and because mounted Avengers work really well in pairs or more.

You can fit in the Falcon, if you cut down on the Guardians, take out the Harlequins and remove one of the Farseer's powers.

I would find a way to fit the falcon in there. The falcon would be a much more reliable transport for, well anything really. Since you don't have very many banshee's, I'd say you should trim them to 6 and put them in the Falcon. Then put 2x 10 Dire Avengers in the serpents, and add the exarchs for blade storm. Have the farseer ride in one of the serpents to doom/guide whatever is getting whacked that turn.

Your wraithlord will spend alot of time sitting next to the guardian squad's warlock.

I love avengers too Dorf. I just don't want to rely solely upon the scorpions for CC. I've had a lot of success infiltrating them so i'd like to have another strong unit to go against elites and MEQ's that'll be able to support the bulk of my force.

You're right about being able to cut guardians down and take out harlequins to fit the falcon to max out on heavy support.

And Dragon, I actually would kind of prefer that my lord spend time next to the guardians. I often have them in tandem so they can hold/take objectives. I'm going to think about using X2 avengers and put the banshees in a falcon with the farseer. Now I just need to assemble the thing.

Thanks everyone!

to be honest when ever i have used Banshees in 1500pts i have found them no where near as effective as 45 attacks on the charge from the Striking Scorpions

statu wrote:to be honest when ever i have used Banshees in 1500pts i have found them no where near as effective as 45 attacks on the charge from the Striking Scorpions

35 power weapon attacks on a termi unit isnt something to laugh at, i get a great return on my banshees, you just need to pick off the elite units

to be honest The Farseer should pretty much always go with the Dire avengers.

Doom and guide up Bladestorm from 11 wounds on MEQs to 22 wounds on MEQs. Thats awesome.

Id also cut the war walkers, such things rarely survive long enough for their armament to be useful, and their slow mobility compared to Falcons and Fire Prisms means you cant get the fire focused were you want it.

@ Combo: I really do like putting the farseer with dire avengers, especially with putting doom on MC's. Maybe you've had different experiences but my walkers always survive because they're often in the backfield and in cover supporting guardians/avengers that are advancing. And the scout move/outflank is nice when the field gets too crowded. I do have a falcon model but have yet to try it (mainly because it's not put together yet). I'm certainly going to try it and see how it goes and decide from there.

@The Squig Herder: Whether it's against a horde or elites banshees have been very good to me. I like scorpions more because of their strength and number of attacks, but I go up against marines on a regular basis. They're near useless if their target isn't doomed but with it they're devastating against any elites/MC's.

The farseer needs runes, both warding and witnessing would be good but you definitely want the anti psycher effect with the cheap IG psych squads running around now.

You have a lot of CC but not enough AT. Scorpions AND banshees AND harlies without a squad of fire dragons just isnt going to work in a competitive environment. Dragons would work best in a serpent tho, so if you want to keep the banshees you would need to do some moving around.

Nothing at all wrong with warwalkers, they may not live all that long but they put out a tremendous amount of damage while they do live. Keeping them in the backfield is definitely the place for them.

Falcons are a bit overpriced now for what they bring to the table. The cant use all of their fire power effectively if they move, and in order to survive they do need to move. Falcosn still have a small place as a very tough transport for a small squad...but thats an expensive number of points
in one chunk.

Maybe adding some fire dragons and giving them the falcon as transport would work, 6 fire dragons is a good at squad and since you already have the falcon model it would cost the least cash.




Sliggoth

ur harliquins are going to auto die they have no leader, spirit seer or deathjester

there are many fundamentally wrong things about ur army

but ill let thee nice people tell you how to fix them

Looks good, but could use a bit more balancing. Like earlier posters, I suggest that you drop one or possibly two of the CC squads (definitely the Harlies, maybe one of the other 2). Against most opponents, you want to hold off on CC for the first half of the game while your Walkers, Avengers etc. thin out the enemy. Eldar need to focus on CC or use it as countercharge, not half-and-half.

While the Scorps and Banshees have different application, when fielded with a Farseer toting Doom the Banshees seem to have the lead against most thing. Add to that the great mobility of their Serpent, and they make the superior force for countering elite enemy CC troops. Scorps tend to be better at beating up on hordes.

To keep your anti-horde power up (and bolster your troops choices and holding power), add that Avenger squad in. You might even want to skip the Exarch to keep them cheap.

Easy things to trim:

Farseers should only field as many powers as they can use during a given turn. I'd strike Guide from the seer, and possibly Fortune and stones as well. If he's in the rear, Fortune will mainly be protecting your objective-squatter units. If the Seer is up front with your mounted units (Dooming targets of focused fire and CC), then Fortune is probably a good idea, keeping your Scorps/Banshees alive and throwing combat results into your favor. In summary: If ion the back, stick with Doom and maybe Guide, if up front, stick with Doom and maybe Fortune.

Oh, and you do need runes to stomp on Lash, IG battle psykers, etc. Since the advent of the PBS, it's become a necessity.

Lastly- make that Warlock a Spiritseer. That'll give you a little more freedom with your Wraithlord.

Good luck! And when you do buy (or convert) a new unit, 6 Dragons will really do good things for your anti-tank capability.

Dr. Fumbles wrote:ur harliquins are going to auto die they have no leader, spirit seer or deathjester

there are many fundamentally wrong things about ur army

but ill let thee nice people tell you how to fix them

First of all: For the sake of all of us, spell out YOU ARE.

Second of all: Could you elaborate on why not having a death jester makes harlequins 'auto die'?

Thirdly: This whole post was intended as a joke, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Savnock wrote:Looks good, but could use a bit more balancing. Like earlier posters, I suggest that you drop one or possibly two of the CC squads (definitely the Harlies, maybe one of the other 2). Against most opponents, you want to hold off on CC for the first half of the game while your Walkers, Avengers etc. thin out the enemy. Eldar need to focus on CC or use it as countercharge, not half-and-half.

While the Scorps and Banshees have different application, when fielded with a Farseer toting Doom the Banshees seem to have the lead against most thing. Add to that the great mobility of their Serpent, and they make the superior force for countering elite enemy CC troops. Scorps tend to be better at beating up on hordes.

To keep your anti-horde power up (and bolster your troops choices and holding power), add that Avenger squad in. You might even want to skip the Exarch to keep them cheap.

Easy things to trim:

Farseers should only field as many powers as they can use during a given turn. I'd strike Guide from the seer, and possibly Fortune and stones as well. If he's in the rear, Fortune will mainly be protecting your objective-squatter units. If the Seer is up front with your mounted units (Dooming targets of focused fire and CC), then Fortune is probably a good idea, keeping your Scorps/Banshees alive and throwing combat results into your favor. In summary: If ion the back, stick with Doom and maybe Guide, if up front, stick with Doom and maybe Fortune.

Oh, and you do need runes to stomp on Lash, IG battle psykers, etc. Since the advent of the PBS, it's become a necessity.

Lastly- make that Warlock a Spiritseer. That'll give you a little more freedom with your Wraithlord.

Good luck! And when you do buy (or convert) a new unit, 6 Dragons will really do good things for your anti-tank capability.

As I said before, I just put together a list with the models I have currently, but your points on the CC units are well taken. I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of banshees and scorpions and overall I'm a big fan of scorpions (as my ability to make armour saves is less than average). What would you think if I doubled up on scorpion squads, maxed out banshees (and of course put them in a transport), and left out the harlies completely? I don't have the models to do this yet, but what would you think of that? Especially if I had an exarch with the power fist in one squad to help with midline infantry... It's just a thought, but I'll probably drop the harlequins for more avengers--more on that later.

Just as an explanation, the reason I use 3 powers is that my farseer usually is going upfield with the bulk of my force. I'm using fortune with long range guys in the first turn or two, then doom and guide, for a turn or so, then fortune and doom when things get scrappy. I see your point to put in the runes to give other psykers a difficult time. That's most certainly worth considering, and if I took out a power and replaced it with the runes I'd be more effective overall. I don't play against a single guard or chaos player currently, but you never know when that'll change.

A note on the warlock... He was supposed to be a spiritseer. My mistake for not putting it in. Good catch!

I really love avengers and I think I'm going to try out that advice and see how it works once I assemble the last of them. They're sort of expensive but they're some of the best shooters out there I think. Especially giving the exarch dual catapults @ BS5. It's an extra 17 points but I have really come to like it lately. Think it's a good idea to keep those in there? They've done very well for me.

Working on the fire dragons. Thanks so much!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sliggoth wrote:
Nothing at all wrong with warwalkers, they may not live all that long but they put out a tremendous amount of damage while they do live. Keeping them in the backfield is definitely the place for them.

Falcons are a bit overpriced now for what they bring to the table. The cant use all of their fire power effectively if they move, and in order to survive they do need to move. Falcosn still have a small place as a very tough transport for a small squad...but thats an expensive number of points in one chunk.

Sliggoth

I'm very glad someone else is in favour of warwalkers. I love those little dudes and though they're extremely fragile they're a huge target and take a lot of fire away from other big nasty things that are much more expensive and much better at what they do. They're typically hidden inside ruins or behind a wood so they're obscured but can still dish out long range missiles to soften up hordes or possibly hurt light vehicles.

Everyone is saying 'falcon' but almost reluctantly it seems. Like it's good idea, just not a great one... And since there aren't many other options that's basically what you have to work with. After all the discussion I'm going to try one out and see how it fares. Who knows, maybe with my playing style it'll work out well.

Thanks!

Or you could do with your falcon what I did with mine.

After a short trip to the local hobby lobby and hardware store I slid a small plastic pipe over the pulse laser, glued a clear gem (jewelry bit from hobby lobby) to the end of that pipe. Then slid another section of plastic pipe over the scatter laser and glued an angled nylon pipe connector to the end of that pipe.....which made the end of the connector point directly at the gem.


Voila! Instant fire prism. My son came up with the idea actually, and it worked really nicely as well as being far more simple than I expected.

I much prefer the prism to the falcon in the heavy slot. So much cheaper and its a threat to both heavy armor and hordes.


Sliggoth

I really like the idea of prisms actually, but I think if I'm going to have one I'd rather have 2 so they can stack. Your idea is great for converting it though, but I kind of want to maintain the ability to use one chassis for both purposes. I'm a magnet freak, so I'm thinking of buying the upgrade kit to make the prism sticking magnets on all the guns (most of which already are), and being able to do both. I think I might proxy the falcon once it's finished and use it as a prism just to see how they work for me. It hasn't gotten much discussion, but I REALLY like them.

Fire Prisms are awesome, the most expensive a fire prism will be is 160 points, with some people running them cheaper(i personally play safe and use both spirit stones and Holofields, never know when deep striking or long range fire power will catch you out)

I still think War Walkers are a poor addition to a mech list, they're too slow to get into positions, they get blown apart easily and they are overly expensive for their poor ballistic skill. Sure they have nice Fire Power, but so do other Eldar units, units that have either superior survivability, or speed. Usually both

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:As I said before, I just put together a list with the models I have currently, but your points on the CC units are well taken. I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of banshees and scorpions and overall I'm a big fan of scorpions (as my ability to make armour saves is less than average). What would you think if I doubled up on scorpion squads, maxed out banshees (and of course put them in a transport), and left out the harlies completely? I don't have the models to do this yet, but what would you think of that? Especially if I had an exarch with the power fist in one squad to help with midline infantry... It's just a thought, but I'll probably drop the harlequins for more avengers--more on that later.

That's a good idea, if you're into the idea of a CC-heavy force. I would definitely add another troops squad to help you absorb incoming damage from either your charge-forward turns or any CC units that escape your Scorps/Banshees and try to gut your troops to force a draw. Even if that means no exarchs in the DAs so that you can get 2 squads, it's a good idea. More bodies is often better than more bling, especially when the bling is not being used every single turn.

Just as an explanation, the reason I use 3 powers is that my farseer usually is going upfield with the bulk of my force. I'm using fortune with long range guys in the first turn or two, then doom and guide, for a turn or so, then fortune and doom when things get scrappy. I see your point to put in the runes to give other psykers a difficult time. That's most certainly worth considering, and if I took out a power and replaced it with the runes I'd be more effective overall. I don't play against a single guard or chaos player currently, but you never know when that'll change.

You know, if you're already spending 150 on your seer and want 3 powers, go whole-hog and spend 210 for Eldrad. The extra 60 points is MORE than worth it. As I recently posted on another list, the reasons are many: 3 powers per turn, especially 2x Fortune (killer in a mechdar army); Decent in CC (2+ wounds with 2 attacks since it's not a spear, all power weapon, plus 3+ invuln re-rolled); and most importantly, allows you to reposition. Killer, killer, killer. The runes are nice too. You WANT this guy. Points from the Harlies (or even cutting down the Guardians, since they have an Embolden seer already) could go here.

I really love avengers and I think I'm going to try out that advice and see how it works once I assemble the last of them. They're sort of expensive but they're some of the best shooters out there I think. Especially giving the exarch dual catapults @ BS5. It's an extra 17 points but I have really come to like it lately. Think it's a good idea to keep those in there? They've done very well for me.

The Exarch is only a good investment if he's packing powers. Either buy him and give him Bladestorm (extra catapult optional) or PW/SS plus Defend (always together), or just don't buy him at all. Basic Avengers on foot are not bad. Mounted, you want Bladestorm if possible.

I'm very glad someone else is in favour of warwalkers. I love those little dudes and though they're extremely fragile they're a huge target and take a lot of fire away from other big nasty things that are much more expensive and much better at what they do. They're typically hidden inside ruins or behind a wood so they're obscured but can still dish out long range missiles to soften up hordes or possibly hurt light vehicles.

The fire-magnet thing is indeed very important. If you're really going for the most resilient force possible, it's best to have identical targets, to keep enemy weapons that deal with that band of targets occupied while everything else sites idle. For example, if all your hulls are AV12, heavy bolters have nothing to do (unless you expose your back armor). With AV10 units around, those HBs have targets again. However, Walkers make up for that with their offensive capacity, as you said. AV10 isn't that different from AV12, so you should at least suck some autocannon shots away if your opponents aren't good at focusing fire.

Everyone is saying 'falcon' but almost reluctantly it seems. Like it's good idea, just not a great one... And since there aren't many other options that's basically what you have to work with. After all the discussion I'm going to try one out and see how it fares. Who knows, maybe with my playing style it'll work out well.

Don't go for a Falcon. Just don't do it. I use mine in Apoc only these days (although there, the Sunstrike squadron orwhatever the flying Falcons are called are AWESOME). Go for a Prism every time. Run them cheap (with Stones only) and you can pack more in. It's not just more firepower- it's more hulls on the field and possibly fire magnets- which means more dilution/distraction of fire otherwise directed at your secretly-more-important troops units.

Oh, one last thing I forgot to say: Stones, stones, stones. You want stones on EVERY Eldar skimmer. If you have the points, put 'em on the Walkers too. But definitely the transports. 120-point transports that can't move are tragic. The 10 points is worth it.

Dr. Fumbles wrote:ur harliquins are going to auto die they have no leader, spirit seer or deathjester

there are many fundamentally wrong things about ur army

but ill let thee nice people tell you how to fix them

That's kind of you, considering the OP would have to decipher anything you say...

Please, take the time to type out your damn words...

Rico...

Rico wrote:

Dr. Fumbles wrote:ur harliquins are going to auto die they have no leader, spirit seer or deathjester

there are many fundamentally wrong things about ur army

but ill let thee nice people tell you how to fix them

That's kind of you, considering the OP would have to decipher anything you say...

Please, take the time to type out your damn words...

Rico...

Time for -facepalm-?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Savnock wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:As I said before, I just put together a list with the models I have currently, but your points on the CC units are well taken. I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of banshees and scorpions and overall I'm a big fan of scorpions (as my ability to make armour saves is less than average). What would you think if I doubled up on scorpion squads, maxed out banshees (and of course put them in a transport), and left out the harlies completely? I don't have the models to do this yet, but what would you think of that? Especially if I had an exarch with the power fist in one squad to help with midline infantry... It's just a thought, but I'll probably drop the harlequins for more avengers--more on that later.

That's a good idea, if you're into the idea of a CC-heavy force. I would definitely add another troops squad to help you absorb incoming damage from either your charge-forward turns or any CC units that escape your Scorps/Banshees and try to gut your troops to force a draw. Even if that means no exarchs in the DAs so that you can get 2 squads, it's a good idea. More bodies is often better than more bling, especially when the bling is not being used every single turn.

Just as an explanation, the reason I use 3 powers is that my farseer usually is going upfield with the bulk of my force. I'm using fortune with long range guys in the first turn or two, then doom and guide, for a turn or so, then fortune and doom when things get scrappy. I see your point to put in the runes to give other psykers a difficult time. That's most certainly worth considering, and if I took out a power and replaced it with the runes I'd be more effective overall. I don't play against a single guard or chaos player currently, but you never know when that'll change.

You know, if you're already spending 150 on your seer and want 3 powers, go whole-hog and spend 210 for Eldrad. The extra 60 points is MORE than worth it. As I recently posted on another list, the reasons are many: 3 powers per turn, especially 2x Fortune (killer in a mechdar army); Decent in CC (2+ wounds with 2 attacks since it's not a spear, all power weapon, plus 3+ invuln re-rolled); and most importantly, allows you to reposition. Killer, killer, killer. The runes are nice too. You WANT this guy. Points from the Harlies (or even cutting down the Guardians, since they have an Embolden seer already) could go here.

I really love avengers and I think I'm going to try out that advice and see how it works once I assemble the last of them. They're sort of expensive but they're some of the best shooters out there I think. Especially giving the exarch dual catapults @ BS5. It's an extra 17 points but I have really come to like it lately. Think it's a good idea to keep those in there? They've done very well for me.

The Exarch is only a good investment if he's packing powers. Either buy him and give him Bladestorm (extra catapult optional) or PW/SS plus Defend (always together), or just don't buy him at all. Basic Avengers on foot are not bad. Mounted, you want Bladestorm if possible.

I'm very glad someone else is in favour of warwalkers. I love those little dudes and though they're extremely fragile they're a huge target and take a lot of fire away from other big nasty things that are much more expensive and much better at what they do. They're typically hidden inside ruins or behind a wood so they're obscured but can still dish out long range missiles to soften up hordes or possibly hurt light vehicles.

The fire-magnet thing is indeed very important. If you're really going for the most resilient force possible, it's best to have identical targets, to keep enemy weapons that deal with that band of targets occupied while everything else sites idle. For example, if all your hulls are AV12, heavy bolters have nothing to do (unless you expose your back armor). With AV10 units around, those HBs have targets again. However, Walkers make up for that with their offensive capacity, as you said. AV10 isn't that different from AV12, so you should at least suck some autocannon shots away if your opponents aren't good at focusing fire.

Everyone is saying 'falcon' but almost reluctantly it seems. Like it's good idea, just not a great one... And since there aren't many other options that's basically what you have to work with. After all the discussion I'm going to try one out and see how it fares. Who knows, maybe with my playing style it'll work out well.

Don't go for a Falcon. Just don't do it. I use mine in Apoc only these days (although there, the Sunstrike squadron orwhatever the flying Falcons are called are AWESOME). Go for a Prism every time. Run them cheap (with Stones only) and you can pack more in. It's not just more firepower- it's more hulls on the field and possibly fire magnets- which means more dilution/distraction of fire otherwise directed at your secretly-more-important troops units.

Oh, one last thing I forgot to say: Stones, stones, stones. You want stones on EVERY Eldar skimmer. If you have the points, put 'em on the Walkers too. But definitely the transports. 120-point transports that can't move are tragic. The 10 points is worth it.

My bullet point list of responses:

Eldrad: The point on eldrad is well taken. I neglected to mention it but I really do want to use him because it is only 60 points for a LOT more stuff. That one is definitely going in, I just don't have the model yet (or anything that could proxy either).

Exarch abilities: I also see your point about the avenger exarchs having powers. I've done very well running them naked but if I'm taking the catapults which I love I really should fit bladestorm in there. I guess I leave out the powers because I forget to use them about half the time! I'm busy making counters to remember but that's a poor excuse to not have a power. In the end I'm probably going to stick with bladestorm and the dual catapults because for me they never fare well in CC.

Troops: In regards to more troops, do you think a 2nd avenger squad would be sufficient? Have a beefy unit of guardians for babysitting in objective games or as a screen in KP missions, and 2 more elite troops to fill in the gaps is what I'm thinking about. I already have the models, so maybe 2 squads of 10 so my troops count is high and shooting ability is decent?

Stones: If you say that stones are worth it, I'll try it. For me those little things don't work too well but if you're such a big fan of them I'll definitely give them a try and see how I fare. The idea of skimmers having more protection really is appealing, so I'll maybe take out an avenger or two and a guardian--after dropping the harlequins of course.

Falcons: So you're another one of those guys who doesn't like falcons. I do see why, so I'm probably going to convert and try it out, see how the things goes for me. Falcons are universally pooped on nowadays, so I'm guessing it'll be a big prism plate on the board for me, which with my scatter rolling should work out very well.

Thanks for all the advice, it's time to go back to the drawing board!