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Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

One of my gallery pictures was given a 1 for the paint job. I, though far from a great painter, think this is entirely incorrect. I thought, "what should I do about this? Rant and rave? Or should I do something more constructive?" I picked "constructive."

I know I'm not alone; I know other folks on this site get scores that don't actually reflect their painting skills. I remember reading one guy's thread about the zero he got. He was understandably confused. Probably a little hurt. He might have cried once or twice. I feel his pain.

An idea hit me: what if there was some sort of voting standard? Something that people could look to when making there decions? Some kind of guide...

**(please pardon me if this guide already exists; I'm new here)**

So here it is. My (rough) guide to voting on painting skills. It's pretty simple. Look at the photo. Look at the Guide. Decide what score it truly deserves. Give that score.

10: A score of 10 is given when a model is so great that the probability that it would make Jesus cry from its beauty is 100%. A 10 model is so good looking that it will likely get married and have kids. The kids will also be 10s. A 10 is less of a model, and more of a work of art. Pierce Brosnan would probably try to steal the 10 model, a la The Thomas Crown Affair. And I don't mean Thomas Crown, the art thief, would steal it, I mean Pierce Brosnan would. Try. He would try and fail because the security would be too harsh for him. He would be arrested and thrown in jail.

5: A 5 is a battle-ready model. No pomp or circumstance. No flash. Just...a painted model.

1: A 1 is basically a monstrosity. A 1 is a warcrime. People who paint 1s should be taken to the Hague and put on trial for crimes against humanity. Then they will likely be hanged. You can read about it in the paper the next day. In about 30 years, the History Channel will run a show about how terrible the whole incident was. Let's not talk about it any more.

0: A 0 isn't even painted. Nuff said.

There you have it. A good rough draft of the criteria for voting correctly. Please feel free to comment and make corrections.

I look forward to your input.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/05/27 07:25:36


“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in za
Junior Officer with Laspistol





South Africa

I think this belongs over in the nuts and bolts part of the site,I am not sure but I at least always look at it like a GD judge,10(like you say)being awesome,5 being a standard paint job.I usally vote like this and think I have never gone lower than three but this was because it was not a pleasing model to the eye or something like that.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."-Groucho Marx
 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

Nuts and Bolts? Maybe. But nobody reads that, and I need to be heard! This is a very pressing issue! After the war, the other war, health care, the economy, and social security, this is the greatest issue of the day! The Greatest!

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in ir
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





The bit stuck on the side of England. Wales isn't it.

I woiuldn't worry about it. The painting looks good to me , better than table top , not as good a golden demon. I like the style of it myself. People who vote don't really pay attention most of the time. Some unpainted nodels have had over 6 before, go figure!

 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





ohio

i know it sucks when a vote hits like this but thats just pepole being stupid.took a look at your ork i say 8/10 and thats some good praise for an ork, the way i vote 1-3 poor 4-5 avrage 6-7 above table top 8-9 wow 10 which i dont hardely give out very high quality



looted moonz 6000 pts and still growing and building  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






It looks very good to me. It's just a vanilla AoBR boss, though, so you can't expect too much from some people. A lot of guys just hate the model and won't give it a good review no matter how well it's painted.

   
Made in us
Martial Arts Fiday






Nashville, TN

People being dicks whilst hiding behind anonymity, welcome to the internetz!

As long as the forum is open, and people have no recourse for crap votes, this will happen.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

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Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

Maybe I got this thread off on the wrong footing. While I appreciate constructive criticism of my painting, what I really wanted to hear from yall was your process for voting on others models.

What scores do you give out and why? What is a 10 to you? A 1? Do you think a voting guide would be useful? If so, what should it say? etc, etc.

(pardon me if I didn't really make this clear last night; I had a few pints before I came home )

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Painting:

1 - Absolutely horrible. It looks like the person dipped the fig in different pots of paint and called it a paintjob.

5 - Decent tabletop quality. Put it on the table with the rest of your army and it will look pretty good.

10 - My first thought upon looking at it is "wow". Perfect paintjob. Lots of colors. Almost looks real unless it's obvious that it's not supposed to.

Coolness:

1 - Crappy miniature. Very little detail. Uninspired and blah. If it's a conversion or some type of custom work then it's obvious that it was just slapped together with no regard to making it look right.

5 - Looks pretty cool. Most GW miniatures with a decent paintjob will get to this point by default. Conversions or sculpts look pretty good and looks decent on the table.

10 - Amazing. For me there has to be a lot of custom work done to the miniature for it to be a 10. Everything flows perfectly and it just stands out for some reason.

A good paintjob has a lot to do with the coolness factor. A well painted miniature will score better in the coolness factor than the same fig painted badly.

   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

I think we had one of these threads before.

For me, Tabletop quality is a 3 or 4. Less than tabletop is a 1 or 2. Good work starts at 5, up to 10 for G.D. quality.

The reason I rate tabletop quality so low is because I think that the system works better with more potential for differentiation among the top scores. If tabletop is 5, then that means you have 4 different scores for 'less than tabletop' (plus 0, for unpainted). How many different levels of 'not even tabletop quality' do you need?



   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

Hmmm...good point, Redbeard. I guess my line of thinking was that 5 was the mathmatical average; the highest part of a bell curve slope.
But I get what you're saying, and think you're probably right.

And, again, pardon me it this thread has been done before. I looked around to make sure I wasn't re-hashing old topics, but, admittedly, I didn't look that hard.

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Yea I looked at your Ork too.... and it looks pretty good. Like said before not supreme but still pretty good. Usually I think its just people being jerks about things. Also I think there are a few people on here that think EVERYONE should paint GD quality therefore anything not that good is crap. Kind of a dumb way to rate I think.
I agree with redbeard abit on that rateing. I think a 5 should be somewhere between bad and GD, which to me would be pretty good.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

The votes seem to be fairly random, my scale for painting gos - 1-2 me when I was a kid 3-5 me know 6-7 Good table top quality 8 Ohh nice 9 Thats Good 10 Migsula!

For coolness it generally go's 1-3 bog standard mini painted poorly or badly converted 4-5 bog standard mini painted ok 6-7 Converted mini painted nicely 8 Ohh Cool 9 Waaayyy Cool 10 Good grief thats awesome!!!

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
 
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Portsmouth UK

I got a double 1 for my deamon prince WIP ('work in progress') from a 14 year old kid.
sometimes votes don't mean anything just a comment on society and the youth of today

Check out my gallery here
Also I've started taking photos to use as reference for weathering which can be found here. Please send me your photos so they can be found all in one place!! 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

bubber wrote:I got a double 1 for my deamon prince WIP ('work in progress') from a 14 year old kid.
sometimes votes don't mean anything just a comment on society and the youth of today


How did you know it was from a 14 year old? Did he PM you, taunting?

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

OK, to me:

0=unpainted or WIP not offered for paint job voting.
1-3 = Terrible moving up to crappy
4-5 = Clean tabletop job or maybe basic drybrushing
6-8 = Good to advanced tabletop job with some techniques used well
9-10 = Exceptionally good.

I have to admit I am not precise in giving scores. The value is more in the comments, IMO.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot






Phonate wrote:One of my gallery pictures was given a 1 for the paint job. I, though far from a great painter, think this is entirely incorrect. I thought, "what should I do about this? Rant and rave? Or should I do something more constructive?" I picked "constructive."

I know I'm not alone; I know other folks on this site get scores that don't actually reflect their painting skills.

I stopped right about here. I didn't read any replies, either.

The reason I stopped is because I thought, "Fackin hell. Not another one of 'these' posts." So, I'll say here the same thing I said in Deadshane's "Why did I get rated badly... wahhh" post:

Who the f*** cares if you got slapped with a 1? Seriously. Who... gives... a... f***? That you would even feel the need to start a thread as a result of somebody giving you a one is beyond me. You put something, anything up on the internet, the nameless, faceless, repercussion-less internet, and you expect people to be sincere? Expect them to be honest? Expect them to be kind? Moreover, you expect everybody to adhere to some set of standards for voting made up by a guy who's butthurt over a 1 rate? Hell, do you even expect most of the people to read the whole thing?

Face it, no matter how friendly and helpful and cool this community is, people are dicks. That one guy that gave you awesome Army List help is the same douchebag that may blast you with a 1. That dude that disagreed with a post you made 3 months ago sees your gallery and blasts you with a 1. Some moron just feels like being a prick gives you a 1 just to piss you off, whether you complain about it or not. Some person that reads this thread sees that a 1 rating bothered you so, JUST to be a wise-ass, he goes to your gallery and, guess what? 1.

At the end of the day, what did that 1 rating change about your miniature? How did it affect your family? Did a pet die? Did you forget how to paint? Did the paint mysteriously fall off of that model? No. So, I reiterate, who gives a f*** if you got a 1?



Ghidorah
who will post a gallery pic so that people can take revenge against me.

   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






For me the whole voting system is a liability, a childish excuse. There are always people there to just annoy you and even when it evens up with numbers, the votes don't really reflect anything or offer anything very useful in my opinion... The interaction and discussion in the forums, or the comments left are a much better indicator.

Like I've said in the past, I wish they did away with the voting system ASAP.





“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
Made in us
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot






Leave it to Migs to say what I was trying to say, only much nicer. This is why people want to hug him and not me. That, and I'm 300' tall with a bad streak a mile long...



Ghidorah

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Doesn't the voting help drive the types of images you see in sequence when you browse
the Gallery randomly? That way you don't end up viewing 100 work in progress pics.

At least, I think that's how it's supposed to work.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot






Well, I know that the only time I ever went there (a couple months ago), I kept getting the same images I had already voted on, so I just left and haven't been back.


Ghidorah

   
Made in ca
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Calgary

First off, I agree with the OP's scale. It's pretty much exactly what I use.

Secondly, this displaying your gallery votes thing is fething stupid. They should never have encouraged people to vote when they didn't want to at all. DakkaDakka was (and still is) a website which existed as a place for people to enjoy themselves. So then they decided that people should vote on images in the Gallery. But people came here to enjoy themselves, not to try and do something morally correct. It's not what they were here for. At this point they had a setup where a picture's average wasn't displayed until it had five votes. So they tried to make people vote more, rather than trying to make it so that things needed less votes. They tried to conform their audience to their content, rather than trying to format their content to suit their audience.

So people looking to relax had to hear about how they should be spending large portions of their free time running through images and voting on them. That was a dumb mistake. Then, because of that, it became something of a moral high ground to have voted on countless images. So then people started just trying to vote through as fast as possible, not really caring about what they gave stuff, giving things that should have received sixes tens, and giving ones to things that should have received fours. Or even just giving completely random numbers. This was bad. So then they made people want to have accumulated votes even more by putting their vote count in their profiles, worsening the problem.

I don't think that they never should have put in a voting system at all, because it's useful for people who want to view the most popular images. I disagree with Migs on that one, but I think that they either should have just never bugged people about voting at all, or not displayed the ratings publicly.

Edit: Oh, sorry, the censor-o-matic seems to have replace what I actually said with "fething". What I meant to say was [Deleted], stupid. Yes, I feel strongly about it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/28 12:16:57


It's better to simply be an idiot, as no one can call you on it here. -H.B.M.C.

Cap'n Gordino's instant grammar guide:
"This is TOO expensive." "I'm going TO the store, TO get some stuff."
"That is THEIR stuff." "THEY'RE crappy converters."
"I put it over THERE." "I'll go to the store THEN."
"He knows better THAN that." "This is NEW." "Most players KNEW that." 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





Texas

Ghidorah wrote:
I stopped right about here. I didn't read any replies, either.


Wow, Ghidorah. Thanks for sharing your feelings with the group. I'm sure we're all a little better for it.

On the other hand, you really should have read everything I said, even the replies. That way you'd know what I was actually saying, instead of just guessing. That way you'd also know you come across as a total turd. Plus, my guide was a) awesome, and b) hilarious. Read it and tell me I'm wrong.

Or don't. And keep guessing.

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” 
   
Made in us
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot






Phonate wrote:Wow, Ghidorah. Thanks for sharing your feelings with the group. I'm sure we're all a little better for it.
Of course you are.

Phonate wrote:On the other hand, you really should have read everything I said, even the replies. That way you'd know what I was actually saying
What you were "actually saying" had no bearing on my post at all. My reply was only regarding what you actually said about somebody giving you a 1 rating and how you know you can paint better than that. I don't give a rat's ass what else you thought you were saying or what you may have been trying to say. The fact of the matter is, somebody gave you a 1 and it got into your head enough that you had to start a thread about it. My reply was simply, "Who gives a f*** about a 1?" Why should you even care? Don't say you didn't, either, because you do. Not only did you START your thread with it, but you felt the need to defend your painting skills.


Phonate wrote:That way you'd also know you come across as a total turd.
Oh well. I'm not hung up on unimportant crap. If there was a choice, I'll take turd.


Phonate wrote:Plus, my guide was a) awesome, and b) hilarious. Read it and tell me I'm wrong.
Ok. You're wrong.
Mitch Hedberg was hilarious. Patton Oswalt is hilarious. Louis C.K. is hilarious.


Phonate? Not so much.


Tell ya what, Phonate. I'll upload a pic to the gallery and you can zap me a 1 or a 0. Then, I will come here and start a thread complaining about it and you can be a turd to me. How's that grab ya?




Ghidorah

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/28 09:33:55


   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

"Who gives a f*** about a 1?" Why should you even care? Don't say you didn't, either, because you do.

Why wouldn't you care about getting a 1?
We have voting in the gallery so that you can get an honest opinion of your model through the average of ratings. Getting a 1 for no reason goes against this.
You are getting really hostile about something that does not deserve getting all riled up about.

ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Group:

Using 'Creative' ways to get around the swear filter is still a violation of Dakka's rules.

Anyone continually found trying to do this will receive a suspension.

Also, please keep the discussion on point and polite.
   
Made in au
Stormin' Stompa






YO DAKKA DAKKA!

Wow I've voted a lot of times... only just noticed there's a counter now.

I go by those general rules, but 4 is my table standard vote now, with 5 strictly requiring more than a few colours and a painted base (or effective washes on basic schemes).

I do lurk the gallery a bit, and I see some crazy voting. Some of my rubbish paint jobs were voted 10s by some loon, and I put a lower vote in myself so the crap wouldn't float to my 'top rated images' pile. You can doctor your own votes similarly if you're that bothered by it - do it responsibly though. You can easily 10 all of your own but it's kind of redundant when anyone who sees the vote can also see the photo.
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Portsmouth UK

Phonate wrote:
bubber wrote:I got a double 1 for my deamon prince WIP ('work in progress') from a 14 year old kid.
sometimes votes don't mean anything just a comment on society and the youth of today


How did you know it was from a 14 year old? Did he PM you, taunting?


no - he left a comment which can not be anonomous and so I clicked on his profile name to find out more about him. I checked out his images and almost got petty as I didn't rate his stuff at all but as I'm 35 I didn't. so there

Comment reads 'You Ruined A Forge World Model!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF'

Apologies to the mods for the abreviated swearing but it is a direct quote from one of the Dakka members.
(holds breath for sanction)

Check out my gallery here
Also I've started taking photos to use as reference for weathering which can be found here. Please send me your photos so they can be found all in one place!! 
   
Made in us
Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot






ph34r wrote:Why wouldn't you care about getting a 1?
Because it means NOTHING. It's POINTLESS.


ph34r wrote:...you can get an honest opinion of your model through the average of ratings. Getting a 1 for no reason goes against this.
I have to admit, this made me giggle a little. You want an honest opinion of your model? Post it in the P&M forum and ask for some. You still won't always get HONEST opinions, as people go out of their way to not hurt people's feelings, but it's 10,000 times more valued than the vote. If you gather your painting/converting net worth via an anonymous online rating system, you are a fool...

Also, in my opinion, if you get all butthurt over a 1, then you may be a little too happy with yourself. Maybe youneed to get knocked down a peg. You said, "Getting a 1 for no reason..." Why do you assume it's for no reason? Maybe there was a perfectly GOOD reason? Maybe, in the voter's eyes it actually was a 1-rated model? I don't recall seeing any definitive rating guide anywhere, so people are left up to their own standards to rate and vote on items. Subjective. A 6 to you will very rarely be a 6 to the next person. If you look at the replies here (yes, I did go back and read them, not ONE is "hilarious") people are near one another, but nobody is exact. In fact, you guys middle-of-the-road is a full two points lower than somebody else's. If you have a basically 'blah' tabletop quality mini and somebody gives you a two, is that "for no reason" too?

Which brings me back to my original point: who gives a toss if somebody gives you a 1? Is your self-worth as a human determined by an anonymous poll, too? Do you need voters to tell you you're a great guy/girl? Caring what invisible people think about your painting and modeling skills is hysterically pathetic to me.

Now, go watch Mitch Hedberg and quit dragging this conversation on.




Ghidorah

   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






London, UK

captain.gordino wrote:So people looking to relax had to hear about how they should be spending large portions of their free time running through images and voting on them. That was a dumb mistake. Then, because of that, it became something of a moral high ground to have voted on countless images. So then people started just trying to vote through as fast as possible, not really caring about what they gave stuff, giving things that should have received sixes tens, and giving ones to things that should have received fours. Or even just giving completely random numbers. This was bad. So then they made people want to have accumulated votes even more by putting their vote count in their profiles, worsening the problem.


When we launched the gallery we had no idea how it would do and it was a case of setting it up and hoping things went well. Immediately we saw a big problem with WIP images and bad photos polluting the ability to casually browse the gallery. The initial response to this was a desire to just get as many votes in as possible from dakka's users in an attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff which is why we were pushing the voting hard back then, and to everyone who put time into voting it was massively appreciated. It was never mandatory and I dont think anybody who isnt petty will look down on people with low vote counts at all. We were and still are really opposed to pushing people to do things like that, which is why as soon as we hit 1 vote on every image, we stopped pushing it, unstickied that thread and started working on more efficient voting algorithms to get the right combination of voting and entertainment in an attempt to make it fun enough that people would vote willingly on their own for their own entertainment. This has been a big success and although about 30% of votes are from big voting users, 70% are from other users (including many, many anonymous users) who just want to vote because they find it fun or want to share an opinion briefly and easily.

The reason the counter was added is simply because there are many people who dont realise they can vote. The majority of whom are just guests on our forum and didnt even know we have such a massive gallery. The effect of adding that counter has more than quadrupled the number of visitors to the gallery and quadrupled the number of votes we were getting before. It is going a long way to improving the search results in the gallery even more.

As for junk votes, they are easy to detect, especially if people just vote with patterns (giving everything they see '7' for instance). They stick out like a sore thumb when there are multiple votes on an image. As a result, it is technically easy to detect them and then ban those users from voting in the future. Everyone makes the odd screw up when voting, especially if using the turbovoter, but if there is targeted abuse we can track it and clean it up easily enough. We've not done this yet as on the whole it is only about 1 in 70 votes that is bad. As more votes come in, the system automatically adjusts votes outside the middle 80% and cuts them out giving us a troll tolerance of one in five votes. This only comes in to play when an image has 5 votes though, so that is why you see threads like this where someone got an undeserving 1/10 or similar. Ultimately we have plenty of ways to deal with bad voting and if and when it increases in quantity, we can clean it up without much trouble.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I do lurk the gallery a bit, and I see some crazy voting. Some of my rubbish paint jobs were voted 10s by some loon, and I put a lower vote in myself so the crap wouldn't float to my 'top rated images' pile. You can doctor your own votes similarly if you're that bothered by it - do it responsibly though. You can easily 10 all of your own but it's kind of redundant when anyone who sees the vote can also see the photo.


The extreme votes will get filtered out as more votes come in, but yes doing balancing votes is acceptable to mask the crazy votes - even I do this sometimes. If you have made loads of regular votes then it wont count against you in the vote troll detection algorithm either.

bubber wrote:no - he left a comment which can not be anonomous and so I clicked on his profile name to find out more about him. I checked out his images and almost got petty as I didn't rate his stuff at all but as I'm 35 I didn't. so there

Comment reads 'You Ruined A Forge World Model!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF'

Apologies to the mods for the abreviated swearing but it is a direct quote from one of the Dakka members.
(holds breath for sanction)


You are in control of your gallery pages and can moderate the comments yourself. At the moment there is no moderator alert function for gallery comments, but since the page represents your hard work and effort, you are free to delete any comment that you dont like or dont want people to see. There should be a 'delete' link to the right of each comment on your gallery image pages and clicking it will do just that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh one other thing - when we have reached about 70% of images having 5+ votes, I am considering changing the gallery to hide the vote scores for images with less than 5 votes, so that these sorts of issues become less frequent and one trollish user cant upset the great people who share photos with everyone else.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/28 14:12:11


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