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Ok I was reading through the Ork Codex and i came up with a bizarre combination that for +45pts (or +74pts) could prove a surprise.

What this hinges on is the wording of the Stikkbomb Chucka. Any unit assaulting on the turn they disembarked counts as being armed with Stikkbombs. This effectively (though very cheesily) means that you can now assault a tank with gretchin and use the grenades for 11 or 20 attacks at strength 4 against the rear armour. This will make most IG players cry (note since the vehicle has no WS the gretchins poxiey WS2 means nothing)

down side is you are transporting gretchin round on your trukks, looted wagons and Battlewagons. Up side you just killed a +100pts tank with 40pts of gretchin. (note i know this only works with vehicles with rear armour 10 ... there are alot of them)

So is this legal? Have i missed a rule some where say Stikkbomb Chucka can't be used this way?

Well, when the Ork Codex came out, you couldn't use frag grenades against vehicles, so this never came up.

the wording is clear however, they count as being armed with Stikkbombs, which are Frag Grenades.

Wait a second... There are no rules for Frag Grenades in the BRB anymore, only Offensive Grenades. Frag Grenades are given as an Example, but that doesnt make it rules... Wow, stikkbombs have no effect!

what do the stikkbombs do in your codex? i'm pretty sure if the act like frag grenades and frag grenades are offensive grenades then it translates to yes this works. The wording in the rulebook is dumb it should be more specific instead of giving a couple examples.

yeah, that is pretty cool, the problem with that is you only now have 11 grots behind enemy lines, and an empty trukk that could have been used for better purposes.

And if the enemy have anything between the tank and the trukk, the strategy goes out the window.

or if the tank moved.

Sorry Double post

ah the grots run behind the truck and jump in when the boys jump out

daygo2ilm wrote:what do the stikkbombs do in your codex? i'm pretty sure if the act like frag grenades and frag grenades are offensive grenades then it translates to yes this works. The wording in the rulebook is dumb it should be more specific instead of giving a couple examples.

Please, show me where it has rules for Frag Grenades in either the Codex or BRB.

Please, go on.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:

daygo2ilm wrote:what do the stikkbombs do in your codex? i'm pretty sure if the act like frag grenades and frag grenades are offensive grenades then it translates to yes this works. The wording in the rulebook is dumb it should be more specific instead of giving a couple examples.

Please, show me where it has rules for Frag Grenades in either the Codex or BRB.

Please, go on.

p.36: "Assault Grenades (e.g. frag grenades..."

If a stikkbomb is a frag grenades, and frag grenades count as assault grenades, then stikkbombs count as assault grenades.

Frag Grenades being an example of Offensive grenades would mean that frag grenades use the rules for offensive grenades. There are plenty of other ambiguities in the rulebook to nitpick on, this isn't one of them.

So a Missile Launcher is an example of a Blast Weapon. Are all Blast Weapons missile launchers then? Because thats the same as what you are saying for offensive grenades. Just because Frag Grenades are given as an Example of an Offensive grenade, does not mean that things that count as Frag Grenades count as Offensive grenades.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:So a Missile Launcher is an example of a Blast Weapon. Are all Blast Weapons missile launchers then? Because thats the same as what you are saying for offensive grenades. Just because Frag Grenades are given as an Example of an Offensive grenade, does not mean that things that count as Frag Grenades count as Offensive grenades.

The 2 conclusions in the example above are derived differently.

A more accurate comparison would be "A missle launcher is an example of a blast weapon, thus all weapons that count as missile launchers are also blast weapons."

The logic holds with an accurate comparison. Sorry friend, the book is plain as day that frag grenades are assault grenades (not offensive as you keep saying). Therefore anything that counts as a frag grenade must also be an assault grenade.

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:So a Missile Launcher is an example of a Blast Weapon. Are all Blast Weapons missile launchers then? Because thats the same as what you are saying for offensive grenades. Just because Frag Grenades are given as an Example of an Offensive grenade, does not mean that things that count as Frag Grenades count as Offensive grenades.

If a frag grenade is an assault grenade. Then any weapon that = a frag grenade = an assault grenade.

If you can, list any weapon that is liken to a frag grenade that is not an assault grenade. That would support your argument better than the missile launcher analogy (which I followed the meaning, however, your argument was more lateral thinking than you intended).

But nowhere does it specifically state that Frag Grenade = Offensive Grenade. All it does is give Frag grenades as an EXAMPLE of Offensive Grenades. Huge Difference

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:But nowhere does it specifically state that Frag Grenade = Offensive Grenade. All it does is give Frag grenades as an EXAMPLE of Offensive Grenades. Huge Difference

I think your arguing to argue now. If you really believe you have an argument, I would love to see any evidence to an instance where Frag Grenades are not assault grenades.

There is no such thing as Offensive Grenades, the category is "Assault Grenades".

Frag Grenades are a sub-category of Assault Grenades. Anything that counts as Frag Grenades therefore also must count as Assault Grenades. This is a simple concept and does not deserve further discussion. Please demonstrate a rules quote that negates what I have put forward or admit to being incorrect.

We've all been wrong before, be a rational person and admit to it. (edit: or at least accept it)

How's this to prove frag grenades are assault grenades:

P.68 of the NEW guard codex: "Frag Grenades: See the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook"

If anyone argues against this, you should go play a different game.

Ian1138 wrote:How's this to prove frag grenades are assault grenades:

P.68 of the NEW guard codex: "Frag Grenades: See the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook"

If anyone argues against this, you should go play a different game.

The point is that with sufficient reading comprehension and logical thinking you don't need an outside reference. Its right there in the BRB.

Flexen wrote:

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:But nowhere does it specifically state that Frag Grenade = Offensive Grenade. All it does is give Frag grenades as an EXAMPLE of Offensive Grenades. Huge Difference

I think your arguing to argue now. If you really believe you have an argument, I would love to see any evidence to an instance where Frag Grenades are not assault grenades.

When shot out of a missile launcher
Then they're heavy 1 grenades.

But honestly, Stikk Bombs = Frag Grenades = Assault Grenades.

I used to respect you "Waaaaagh!"

Canonness Rory wrote:

Flexen wrote:

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:But nowhere does it specifically state that Frag Grenade = Offensive Grenade. All it does is give Frag grenades as an EXAMPLE of Offensive Grenades. Huge Difference

I think your arguing to argue now. If you really believe you have an argument, I would love to see any evidence to an instance where Frag Grenades are not assault grenades.

When shot out of a missile launcher
Then they're heavy 1 grenades.

But honestly, Stikk Bombs = Frag Grenades = Assault Grenades.

I used to respect you "Waaaaagh!"

I see what you did there !

Canonness Rory wrote:

Flexen wrote:

Waaaaaaagh! wrote:But nowhere does it specifically state that Frag Grenade = Offensive Grenade. All it does is give Frag grenades as an EXAMPLE of Offensive Grenades. Huge Difference

I think your arguing to argue now. If you really believe you have an argument, I would love to see any evidence to an instance where Frag Grenades are not assault grenades.

When shot out of a missile launcher
Then they're heavy 1 grenades.

But honestly, Stikk Bombs = Frag Grenades = Assault Grenades.

I used to respect you "Waaaaagh!"

But a missile launcher launches missiles. You're looking for a grenade launcher.
Unnecessary point aside, It's quite clear that a bunch of grots would wreck a tank's day. Good thing trukks are easy to kill.

Dracos wrote:

p.36: "Assault Grenades (e.g. frag grenades..."

If a stikkbomb is a frag grenades, and frag grenades count as assault grenades, then stikkbombs count as assault grenades.

Thanks Dracos I don't bring my rulebook to work so didn't have a chance to prove i'm not a complete idiot.

Lol you are all idiots who fell into my trap.

Good Times ensued!

Ian1138 wrote:
Unnecessary point aside, It's quite clear that a bunch of grots would wreck a tank's day. Good thing trukks are easy to kill.

Well, no, they'd land between 3 and 20 hits depending on what their transport was and how far they moved, which at S4 would put on 0-3 glances.

So 20 grots piling out of a battlewagon against an immobile vehicle with rear armor 10 get 3-4 glancing hits.. that's only one weapon destroyed/immobilized result at max effectiveness.

It is a funny easter egg, though. Good find.

the goal is to stun or shake said tank(/s) so that you don't have to deal with it(/them) this turn (any thing else is a bonus). 0-3 glances on a squadron of Leman russ is a blessing.

In practice any thing could happen grots might charge a tank that didn't move and then all fail to glance it, On the other hand there's the slim chance they'll all hit a fast moving skimmer, all glance, and destroy it with weapon destroyed results. You never know but at least the odds are good it won't be able to shoot back.

I had flashbacks to math class...

If A = B
and B = C
Then C also equals A.

Self-admitted trolling aside, it's definitely not worth it. The battlewagon full of grots is a fun idea (wait, you put WHAT in your tank?) but it's actually remarkably expensive for a flew glancing hits on a single turn of the game.

That all being said, I'm putting this into my bag of tricks for the next time I'm in a campaign.

Nothing like a group of grots looting a wagon and deciding to make a mad dash to see if they can get another one.