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I think so but what do you think.

for my dark angels.. there's no such thing; der all the same

but for codex marines... yes yes and more YES; 3++ saves w/ S8 or 3 attacks w/rerolls to wound pretty nasty right there

Yeh an awsome combo is 3 lcs 3ths for 240 and ad a chaplain with termi armour and a storm bolter for 370

Vanilla Marines:

Take 10, or 20 depending on the points level all with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. Add Shrike. Sprinkle other stuff to taste.

Or...Take 8 in a Land Raider Crusader with thunder hammers and storm shields and take Vulcan (or a chaplain) and take stuff out. If you also have vulcan, take alot of meltas and flamers in the rest of your army.

Black Templars:

Majority Lightning Claws and few Thunder Hammers, then take the emperor's champ with Preferred Enemy. Place in Land Raider Crusader and go.

Blood Angels:

Equip them with power armor, jump packs and paint them black and call them Death Company

Dark Angels:

Include 1 lightning claw and 1 thunder hammer in each 5 man squad to take advantage of wound allocation and give you some extra CC punch.

Space Wolves:

Take thunder hammer and storm shields mixed with Cyclones and Runic Charms in a Land Raider Crusader with a Wolf Priest.

Blood Angels:

Equip them with power armor, jump packs and paint them black and call them Death Company

You can give them jump packs?

Kogwar wrote:Blood Angels:

Equip them with power armor, jump packs and paint them black and call them Death Company

You can give them jump packs?

And power armor too! And they are free!!!!

Seriously, I was making a reference to the actual Death Company reference in the Blood Angels codex, and I was implying that you should leave the terminators at home because maxing out your death company or taking Veteran Assault Squads is a much better choice then taking terminators in a Blood Angels list.

whitedragon wrote:

Kogwar wrote:Blood Angels:

Equip them with power armor, jump packs and paint them black and call them Death Company

You can give them jump packs?

And power armor too! And they are free!!!!

Seriously, I was making a reference to the actual Death Company reference in the Blood Angels codex, and I was implying that you should leave the terminators at home because maxing out your death company or taking Veteran Assault Squads is a much better choice then taking terminators in a Blood Angels list.

Oh sry i thought you where talking about terminators.

Assault Terminators can be great in the Vanilla Marine list, but they need to be delivered somehow effective. Just walking them across the board will not cut it.

The Land Raider is an obvious choice, but you can also Deep Strike them if your list is more suited to that. There aren't too many options, really, besides those.

The Shrike list is one way to get them into CC. Fleet helps, but it's not really enough to turn them into a truly fast unit.

Phryxis wrote:The Shrike list is one way to get them into CC. Fleet helps, but it's not really enough to turn them into a truly fast unit.

Don't forget one unit can infiltrate with shrike, that definetely gets them close enough.

Assault Termies are all kinds of win, just make sure they have a LRC to get them where you want

I used a 10 men Assault Termie squad with TH/SS in two successive RTTs and won them. My opponents were pissed off since I also fielded a 10 men Termie squad with two cyclones.
They are worth every point.

whitedragon wrote:Dark Angels:

Include 1 lightning claw and 1 thunder hammer in each 5 man squad to take advantage of wound allocation and give you some extra CC punch.

With 1 wound per model, wound allocation shenanigans don't mean very much at all.

That being said, Assault Terminators are very much worth it in just about every version of Space Marine you can play, but only if you give them the transportation necessary to do their job. That means Land Raiders, which are worth their additional points on several levels as well. Deep Strike and Drop Pods don't lend all that well to the role of the Assault Terminator, unfortunately.

KaloranSLC wrote:With 1 wound per model, wound allocation shenanigans don't mean very much at all.

You are incorrect. With each model being different, you can keep multiple wounds from wiping out your whole squad, or keep important models alive by forcing the allocation to double up on something less optimal. For example, if you take 7 wounds from bolters, two models must have two wounds allocated to them. Say for sake of argument that each of these models fails both their saves, well, they each can only die once, so you only lose two models out of the squad where you would have lost 4 if they were all armed the same.

Consquently, if this squad happens to be in range of the apothecary, you get a good chance to see who can benefit the most from the "ignored" save and save the model that you really want.

And with termies 2+ saves, doubling up saves works out well in their favor. It also can mitigate a large number of wounds caused by plasma/power weapons, whatever.

whitedragon wrote:

KaloranSLC wrote:With 1 wound per model, wound allocation shenanigans don't mean very much at all.

You are incorrect. With each model being different, you can keep multiple wounds from wiping out your whole squad, or keep important models alive by forcing the allocation to double up on something less optimal. For example, if you take 7 wounds from bolters, two models must have two wounds allocated to them. Say for sake of argument that each of these models fails both their saves, well, they each can only die once, so you only lose two models out of the squad where you would have lost 4 if they were all armed the same.

Consquently, if this squad happens to be in range of the apothecary, you get a good chance to see who can benefit the most from the "ignored" save and save the model that you really want.

And with termies 2+ saves, doubling up saves works out well in their favor. It also can mitigate a large number of wounds caused by plasma/power weapons, whatever.

Whitedragon is exactly right.

My DW sqauds have every member armed uniquely, and it saves alot of lives, especially when facing volume of fire from such things as Lootas or Warwalkers. Their survivability is compounded even more when you realize that a DA army can have up to 3 Apothecaries in it, each with a 6" range.

Assault terminators are one of the best units in the codex.

G

A pair of LCs makes for 40 point Chaos Termis, toss in Icon of Slaanesh to give them Init 5 and Assault Termis cry.

Not with a three plus, and why spend the points to boost initiative when a thunder hammer swings last?

G

Blow Fly is right, TH/SS termies are simply better.
Against LC termies, the chaos ones win out, especially if they're terminator champions.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Not with a three plus, and why spend the points to boost initiative when a thunder hammer swings last?

G

Prolly should have been more specific. I run a squad with that get up and have fought TH/SS termis incidentally with much success. 40 Attacks doesn't care about 3++.

It's all about throwing as many dice as possible now.

G

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
Prolly should have been more specific. I run a squad with that get up and have fought TH/SS termis incidentally with much success. 40 Attacks doesn't care about 3++.

You'd have better luck running berzerkers. You can have twice as many berzerkers for the cost of your giant 10 man terminator squad, and the berzerkers will fair about as well as the terminators and be scoring to boot. Not to mention you can fit ten berzerkers in a land raider or rhino, and your huge termy squad has to hoof it, and has no nifty way of outflanking/infiltrating.

10 Chaos Termies with LC's Charging:
40 Attacks x (1/2)to hit x (3/4)to wound for the re-roll x (1/3)failed saves from the TH/SS termies = 5 Dead termies

And the termies only get about 2 back, so not too bad, maybe lose another one from no retreat and you don't have to worry about getting the crap shot out of you the next turn, (unless they are led by vulcan, then you will feel some pain and even draw the combat or lose) but then the marine player charges in an Iron Clad and your unit is useless. That's if he lets you run 10 chaos assault termies across the board on foot by themselves in the first place.

So yes, the 10 LC termies may work, but probably not the best choice.

On the other hand, a Berzerker army can be played by flow chart. I think actualy have one around here somewhere.

Who would even question this?

They are amazing for their points.

Take them in a LR, with shrike to make them crazy fast, with Khan and outflank them in a LR or team them up with a libby and gate forward turn one and then assault next turn.

They are fantastic.

I agree the question is purely rhetorical.

G

They are amazing for their points... Just ask all my dead carnifexes how effective they are.

Not for me however, because I can't roll saves to save... Well, anything.

put the termies in a LRC muhaha

The only problem I have had with them is going against heavily mobile armies, they just so slowww....

That's true, but hence the land raider comment by the commissar. On foot they're completely useless I think but when they're transported they always do well in my experience.