Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was in the mood to get some games in this weekend. The GF was out of town and I had finished 2 1/2 Vehicles over the last half month.

I couldn't convince anybody to join me for a game, so I ended up play testing a 1k pt DE list (revised once) against two different 'Nid lists and one 'Cron list.
(I really wanted to see if I could beat my DE with any of my armys, Since I've jumped back into DE (haven't played them since 3rd) they are currently undefeated, out of 7 or so games..(I ended up winning (against my DE) with a stealer-heavy swarm list in objectives, oddly enough).)

It actually helped me understand some of the strengths and weakness' of ALL the list I ran.

For instance I learned my (1k) DE list was short on troops, making it great in KP games, but tough in objectives.

I found out the WebWay portal can actually be very useful now with the 'reserve' option being in all standard games. (thus allowing you to choose to bring them in from the table edge or your web way portal.) But is definatley preffered in a wyche cult army!

I found out my Ravagers don't need Night shields as muich as I thought they did. (I always considerd them the highest priorty target, but since I was playing against my DE at the same time, I found there were so many priorty targets that the Ravagers ended up being greatly ignored, especially when Close combat started.)

Playing against yourself seems to bring out the true advantages of units as well, since when I would, say, commit an Arcon and 9 Wyches to a charge. I would instantly start to think about my reactionary moves for the army being charged. Was that the best charge I could have pulled, or did I just give my other army a chance at ending Close Combat with me standing in the open? etc etc...

Anyways I was just wondering if anybody had tried something similar, and if they found it useful or not.

I would hope your undefeated if you are playing against yourself!

I had to, sorry.

Seriously I have never done it, but my buddy who has recently moved to a remote far off local has/does.

In our group, if you beat him, you have done very well.

I do it to occationaly, usualy to try out a new unit. It's not substitute for a real game, but it can help to see how a unit or army works togeather. Particularly for movment or other utility abilities that Mathhammer doesn't work for.

Just don't forget to approch each side-turn independiently, don't do an action just because it's the action you expected when you were playing the other side.

This works for pretty much any game. Just have a strategy in mind for either side in advance and you should be ok.

It'll make you go blind.

Gah. Multi.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:I do it to occationaly, usualy to try out a new unit. It's not substitute for a real game, but it can help to see how a unit or army works togeather. Particularly for movment or other utility abilities that Mathhammer doesn't work for.

Just don't forget to approch each side-turn independiently, don't do an action just because it's the action you expected when you were playing the other side.

Yeah, I was actually trying very hard TO defeat myself. (I know I'm sounding sort of crazy)

The thing is, the local 'crew' gives me guff because my DE hit much harder than my other two armys. Not boasting, but the word 'unbeatable' has been tossed around after some grueling matches. The simple fact is I don't have the energey to re-do a huge 'Nid army or the desire to even touch my 'crons, so competitivley speaking, I lean on my DE.

I've never played against DE, but I've never considered them unbeatable, even with my 'Nids and 'Crons which are not very competitive lists.

So as far as I know I was playing as unbiased as possible. Using what I thought would be the strongest strategys per army. I would also add I build all the lists as generic as possible, with the intention of those lists to have a well rounded approach.(That includes the DE lists).

As I stated above, I was quite amazed I took the DE with a 'Nid list as follows.

Broodlord, Feeder Tendrils.
8 Stealer retinue, Scything Talons, Extended Carapace

12 Stealers, feeder tendrils

6 Stealers, Scuttlers, Feeder Tendrils
6 Stealers, Scuttlers, Feeder Tendrils
11 Termagaunts, Fleshborer, WoN
3 Zoanthropes, Warp blast, Synapse
edited to add: Mission was Loot Counters, w/ Dawn of War deployment.

Hollismason wrote:It'll make you go blind.

I see what you did there.

Iv'e been considering doing this, since I only get a game or two a week. I guess, for me at least, The problem stems from not knowing anything about other armies. But then maybe this is an excuse to learn about my brothers Nids! Damn, I can't decide if that sounds totally fun, or like a whole ton of work.

I love playing orks. Really small, small, medium, big, really big. All you need to know.

I've done it once or twice, but it didn't feel right.

If you sit on your hand for a while and then roll the dice, it feels like someone else is playing.

I have play-tested lists over email before. I have a friend who knows my army well, and I his. I have emailed him ideas I have put together, he proposes a counter, I propose the anti-counter, etc. Mathhammer resolves attacks. No substitute for a real game, but it can help when trying to work through a new idea.

Playing against yourself would be no worse than someone playing chess against themselves. There is sure to be at least some improvement from it!

I was going to have a test game the other day when I was at GW since there were only 3 other people there and they were all painting and didn't want to play. But of course GW being GW, I was told I was not allowed to play test games or any sort of game against myself and that I MUST have an opponent to use the tables... A few days later I went back and asked 4 guys that were there including a different employee what they thought of it and they all said that I should have been allowed to play a test game against myself especially if the place was basically empty and no one was into a game.




-Orkishly

Which is a very GW thing too. How many times can you call the rules question guy before you get the same answer 2 times in a row? The world may never know.

That being said, testing vs yourself, as long as you understand that both sides are essentially playing with perfect knowledge of the opponent (a state that is unlikely) is very good for getting the feel of certain match ups. It works in Chess, and I have used it with magic the gathering, and it works here as well. The only barrier that I see is setup time, and play space. Once you get to a certain point, only playing vs a good opponent can improve your game though.

Vassal solves the issue of play space quite well.

Just don't expect to surprise yourself (at least not often!)

The other downside is that there's no one to point out your rules mistakes.

The upside is that you can test out new/different units and strats.

the downside is that you are facing an opponent that knows exactly what your army does and the best place to target. While this can give you an insight into weakness (that you possibly already know) but it isnt very realistic. Psychology also doesnt come into play, because you'll know if a big creature is really that big of a threat or not.


It can help you prepare for the toughest opponent possible to face and can be useful for helping you "feel" out new units, but isnt necessarily a very realistic scenario.


I Find I can never play test myself (I had this problem in magic) because I know exactly what to target.