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Ok, i know that Slaanesh was created due to the eldars actions, but i cant seem to find anything on how the other 3 chaos gods were "born"

Does anyone know?

Technically the cataclysmic death of the old Eldar Empire merely heralded Slaanesh's birth into the material world. Remember that the Chaos Gods 'exist' outside of space and time, so concepts of 'creation' and even 'existence' may not apply to them. Remember that all of the descriptions, all the stories and whatnot about the Realm of Chaos are merely metaphors to describe what is essentially the indescribable goings on beyond the Material World of space and time.

All I know is that they predate the birth of the Emperor, and actually it was their arising that caused the Shamans to create the Emperor, around 4,000 B.C. Check on Lexicanum, they have tons of 40K information.

Khorne is the oldest and most powerful god, because ever since humans encountered each other, they've been fighting. All the wars and raids (probably from the Vikings), led to his creation from the bloodlust of mankind.

Tzeentch was probably next, as mankind discovered how to use magic. They used it too much, causing the warp to form Tzeentch.

I think it was written in the really old Chaos fluff (Lost and the Damned and Slaves to Darkness) that Nurgle was created as a result of the millions of people that the Black Plague killed. Makes sense I suppose.

Chaos (The Warp etc) have existed since life began. After the Slaan created several of the Major Races (Eldar, Humans and Orks) the vanished, and the races went on their Merry Way.

Humans are unique in while possessing very little Psychic ability, they have a very large "resonance" in the Warp. The result of this is that 3 of the 4 chaos "gods" are pretty much humanities fault.

Khorn was the first to achive sentience, as humankind engaged in barbaric Wars against each other.
Then was Nurgle, as great pestilence spread across the globe.
Then Tzeentch was born of the lies and deceit perpetuated by the Technological Age.

Now remember, now with so few humans, they were weak, but the fact they existed at all is a testament to mankinds effect on the warp. Now, as mankind expanded to the stars and grew in number, so did these 3 Entities. With this the 3 Gods gained their Strength, and it was this that allowed them to steal the primarchs Away.

However, soon after the Eldar began to decline. Still millennia away from the fall, their Decadent lifestyle was causing huge disturbances in the Warp, as each Eldar is many times more "visible" in the warp than any Human. This caused Slaanesh to start to form, causing Warp Storms all across the Galaxy and halting the advance of Humanity. It was only when Slaanesh was Born, creating the Eye of Terror, did these warp storms clear and allow the Great Crusade to reclaim the Imperium.

Actually in Slaves of Darkness it claims that the Shamans created the emperor because of further disturbences by warp critters, NOT the chaos gods we know and love, those formed later on, after the Emperor was born.

There is another piece of Fluff that place a man leading a bloodthirsty army in the early mid 20th century as the first Champion of Khorne (could the writers come up with anything less blatant?)

IIRC, they put out an alternate explination later, indicating the original gods were formed during the Old Ones-C'tan war. Generated by the psychic resonance from the massive draws and manipulations of the warp the old ones used against the C'tan, along with the C'tan's attemps to block such attacks.

So in other words, we give eldar crap about creating a chaos god from their hornyness and irresponsibility, but we created the other 3 from out bloodlust, our lack of hygiene, and out dishonesty.

Go humanity!

Canonness Rory wrote:So in other words, we give eldar crap about creating a chaos god from their hornyness and irresponsibility, but we created the other 3 from out bloodlust, our lack of hygiene, and out dishonesty.

Go humanity!

Indeed

I think it's better to ignore the official fluff, particularly the embarrassment that is the Slaves to Darkness cock-and-bull about shamans, illuminati, and other blarney. Not to say you can't like that stuff, just that it isn't my cup of tea.

Consider that the Warp is outside of riemannian space-time, it's kind of silly to think of entities inhabiting it, if they can be said to inhabit it rather than to constitute it, were created by the small bit of existence bounded by time. The new Chaos Daemon Codex has a nice bit, purely metaphorical of course, about how the Milky Way galaxy is simply a unfashionable back-water of the actual universe, and a tiny part of the larger space-time and space-time itself a tiny part of reality beyond space-time.

Seeing as the Chaos Gods exist (subsist?) outside of Space-Time, for the main part, it would seem better to speak of their most recent points of entry into the Material Universe. Hence Slaanesh wasn't created by the Eldar, but She became immanent in the Material Universe via a birthing process; the Eldar became the channel (canal, if you will) through which She could directly affect a portion of the Material Realm. The Eye of Terror isn't simply the afterbirth of Slaanesh, but a Warp/Reality interface where Slaanesh's dominion of corruption invades the Material Realm.

According to the current background in the 5th edition rulebook, there's re-emphasis on the inevitable corruption of the Material Realm, or at least the Human Galaxy, where the sharp angles and order of reality will collapse back into the sea of Chaos.

I like to imagine, then, that the Tyranids are somewhat like the enemy in the Gunbuster anime series, reality's immune system trying to purge the Milky Way of disordered life before that galaxy can be corrupted. Of course, I also like to think that the Emperor and the Great Devourer represent a fifth Dark Power whose dominion is a ravening hunger. Any attempt to enforce order on Chaos, such as the divison of the Powers and their dominions, daemons, and hierarchies, is necessarily temporary and an aspect of Chaos itself.

So rather than being somehow antithetical to Chaos, the worship and psychic manifestation of the Emperor, and the Great Devourer, is simply another manifestation of Chaos. Much like everyone indirectly serves the Chaos Gods, in that slaughter feeds Khorne whether it's in his Name or not, this fifth Power is being served indirectly. In a universe of Chaos the possibilities of order and structure serve as gifts of Chaos, and the Material Universe itself is merely the domain of that fifth Power, though it is dwarfed by the Great Powers since while order is possible, it's much less likely and much less prevalent than the disorder pervading the universal ferment of Chaos.

Much like the realms of the Great Powers are coterminus, coextensive, and constantly encroaching on each other (not to mention inconsistent, but that's the nature of Chaos, that the law of excluded middle does not apply and yet all things follow from a contradiction), they encroach on the Material Realm. Likewise, it encroaches on them, giving them structure as Khorne gives them entropy, Nurgle gives them equilibrium, Slaanesh gives them motivation, and Tzeentch gives them change. While they can be distinguished, metaphorically, all of these Powers are but facets of a hyper-dimensional jewel, and though in spinning before a single perspective these facets appear to rise and fall, struggle and change, the jewel itself is whole and requires them all to be what it is.

Back to the point about Slaanesh. Sometime, if you're out beyond city lights sometime, lie down (preferably high up, or alternately in a lake) and look up at the sky and imagine there being, way back and beyond the stars, a malevolent red eye staring down at you as if looking down on Creation via a gigantic microscope. That Eye is looking at you for a reason, and it may be that others attracted its attention, but neither you nor they created that Eye.

Here's what I have heard.

Tzeentch was created by the old ones in an effort to utterly destroy the necrons. Epic fail.

Nurgle was created from the utter filthiness of 40k skaven (are they still around?)

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

And Slaanesh was created from the fall of the Eldar race.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

Gunna need you to cite your sources, this ruins Khorne for me.

Canonness Rory wrote:

Exarch_Nektel wrote:

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

Gunna need you to cite your sources, this ruins Khorne for me.

The Doombreed thing is hinted at in the CSM codex, but I'm not sure where I picked up the other bit.
I think it was an old article on the GW site. It might have been from Warseer or Bell of Lost Souls too.

Either way, I'm not sure this fluff is even valid anymore (aside from Doombreed being hitler).

From lexicanum
"Doombreed's true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago, responsible for genocide and murder on a grand scale."
That could be a large number of people, several bible characters, many kings during the dark ages, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, pope innocent, the going-on in Rwanda, Several romans emperors.... etc. etc.
Human History is fraught with slaughter and genocide.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Here's what I have heard.

Tzeentch was created by the old ones in an effort to utterly destroy the necrons. Epic fail.

Nurgle was created from the utter filthiness of 40k skaven (are they still around?)

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

And Slaanesh was created from the fall of the Eldar race.

Who told you that crap?

Dreadwinter wrote:

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Here's what I have heard.

Tzeentch was created by the old ones in an effort to utterly destroy the necrons. Epic fail.

Nurgle was created from the utter filthiness of 40k skaven (are they still around?)

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

And Slaanesh was created from the fall of the Eldar race.

Who told you that crap?

Various sources. I'm just throwing it out there because this is a discussion and I'm adding to it. I'm just saying what I have heard/read in various places, and you can debate whether or not it is true. I know my last point about Slaanesh is true, and I'm fairly certain from the Caiphas Cain books that the first point about Tzeentch is true as well. The other points are just hearsay abd the speculation of various people.

according to the lexium the first three chaos gods become conscious entities between 8000 BC and 1400 AD. Probably Khorne first, then Tzeentch with Nurgle coming post AD when the black death occured.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ancient_history

Strangely the Lex says that the Emperor was born at 8000 BC in angolia, making him as old if not older than the Chaos Gods. If the Lexicaniums data is accurate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exarch_Nektel wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:

Exarch_Nektel wrote:Here's what I have heard.

Tzeentch was created by the old ones in an effort to utterly destroy the necrons. Epic fail.

Nurgle was created from the utter filthiness of 40k skaven (are they still around?)

Khorne was created on account of WWII and the Holocaust. Hitler is the daemon-prince Doombreed, who is mentioned in the Chaos marines codex.

And Slaanesh was created from the fall of the Eldar race.

Who told you that crap?

Various sources. I'm just throwing it out there because this is a discussion and I'm adding to it. I'm just saying what I have heard/read in various places, and you can debate whether or not it is true. I know my last point about Slaanesh is true, and I'm fairly certain from the Caiphas Cain books that the first point about Tzeentch is true as well. The other points are just hearsay abd the speculation of various people.

The Old Ones wouldnt of directly created Tzeentch. However they did create alot of Psyker races in their fight againt the C'tan. This would of indirectly made Tzeentch stronger, or brought him into existence possibly.


as for doombreed being Hitler it says on the lex that:

"Doombreed is a mighty Daemon Prince of the Blood God Khorne, responsible for leading the 5th Black Crusade against the Imperium.

His origins are a matter of contradiction. It is stated Doombreed was one of the first of Khorne's servants. Doombreed's true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago, responsible for genocide and murder on a grand scale. Such wanton carnage drew the eye of the god Khorne, still relatively young, who granted the warlord the ultimate reward of Daemonhood.3

Other sources state that Doombreed was once a noble member of the Astartes, who declared complete war on the Imperium 723.M36 during the Crusade and was made a Daemon Prince. During this Crusade two loyal Space Marine chapters, the Warhawks and the Venerators were completely wiped out.7

It is believed that Doombreed fought alongside Horus during the Heresy, and was present on Horus' Battle Barge when he confronted the Emperor and was slain. If this is true, then it would give credence to the former theory of Doombreed's creation, although as with many servants of Chaos, the truth may never now be known. "

if the former theory is true then he could well be Hitler, however he could as easily be Stalin, Ghenghis khan, Atila the Hun or any number of infamous characters from our past.

combo wrote:Strangely the Lex says that the Emperor was born at 8000 BC in angolia, making him as old if not older than the Chaos Gods. If the Lexicaniums data is accurate.

Nope not strange at all. This is 100% Accurate. The reason the Emperor was "born" was because as Humankind was expanding, the Warp was becoming more and more Turbulent, meaning that the Ancient Shamans were reincarnating less and less as their souls became lost or devoured in the Warp. As such they all (thousands upon thousands) went on top of some mountain (Occasionally stated to be Mount Ararat in Turkey), debated about that they should do. They decided to all top themselves and amalgamate their Souls into one MEGASOUL in order to guide humanity. As such the Emperor was born soon after but spent many thousands years simply learning how to control and use his power, before starting to work behind the scenes and try and fix things (Of course him accidentally starting a worldwide "religion" was a failed experiment, and probably the reason for his Anti-Religion stance in the future)