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This is going to be a simple one for the "Vets" of 5th Edition as I'm purely out of 3rd...

When you have your army list and are starting a game, do you have to tell your opponent what is in each vehicle? I'm not asking that they not be marked vehicle wise, such as IG tanks are marked visually, or not asking for answer in the hopes that you can "change your mind" as to what is in each vehicle mid-game, but what's the call?

-J.

In 5th, under the heading "A note on Secrecy" you are instructed to tell your opponent what unit is in each transport.

Any player who refuses to answer a composition or deploment question about thier army should be viewed as suspect for shinanigans. You dont have this problem at tourneys since your obliged to present your opponent an army list at start of game.

9 times out fo 10 I wont play the sneaky person.

AtraAngelis wrote:You dont have this problem at tourneys since your obliged to present your opponent an army list at start of game.

Tournaments are free to do what they want, including 'secret' army lists.

Here is a question about "A Note on Secrecy". "After you tell your opponent whats in what are you required to keep telling him? Say for example he asking you on turn five what is what after you explained it at the begining of the game.

I don't know if you're required, but I view it as the polite thing to do. If you're playing Mech guard and you've got 9 Chimeras left it would probably be a little hard for your opponent to remember. Heck it would probably hard for you to remember as well. If somebody is needing to hide the contents of their list they're playing with the idea that secrets win games.

I too would see it as the polite thing to do, but I think there would be a point were it would become unnessicary. I mean at turn five if I have two transports left and I told you what was in them before, say last turn, why should I tell them this turn? My point is I shouldn't have to remind my opponent every turn unless there is a reason. Simply I forgot doesn't cut it with me.

Some of us are that forgetful. If it wasn't for all my transported squads being identical, I'd have to write it down remember my own from turn to turn, even if I only had 1 transport. Particularly if your turn took an hour and a half. Just becasue you have a good memory doesn't mean the rest of us do.

It comes down to how you read their intentions. If they're asking because they honestly forgot, and it could be important? Or are they just asking you to annoy you?

On a side note, a lot of people I know stick the sgt. of the squad on the transport. That's usualy enough to remind your opponent what it is.

Alerian wrote:In 5th, under the heading "A note on Secrecy" you are instructed to tell your opponent what unit is in each transport.

AtraAngelis wrote:You dont have this problem at tourneys since your obliged to present your opponent an army list at start of game.

Ghaz wrote:Tournaments are free to do what they want, including 'secret' army lists.

These three have it right basically.

Hmmm, so a good solution to the problem might be to put the Sgt on top. Then they know what is inside.

I know some people honestly forget and I understand that. I also know that it can be game breaking.

That's what I do, place a distinctive model from the squad on top of the transport. So the Standard Bearer is on my HQ Chimera, one of the psyker is on topof the psyker battle squad chimera, etc etc.

Granted it would be quite hard to stop cheating, but if you thought about it literally... How can your enemy see what is inside your transports...? I mean... Think about it like a real battlefield.

-J.

Alazahr wrote:Granted it would be quite hard to stop cheating, but if you thought about it literally... How can your enemy see what is inside your transports...? I mean... Think about it like a real battlefield.

-J.

So in the Grim Dark Future of the 41st millennium, where Psykers abound and Planet destroying technology is commonplace, nobody has worked out how to use forward scouts or a pair of binoculars?

You are told to make a note of it or do something else representative. If you skip doing something that allows your opponent to check what is in a given transport at his whim, you get to answer him since you made him ask in the first place.

Seriously, if you have a problem answering a question about what is in a transport, have each transport with a distinctive marking of some kind, and make a note like the book says. Your opponent can just look at the notes any time he wants. Problem solved.

Alazahr wrote:Granted it would be quite hard to stop cheating, but if you thought about it literally... How can your enemy see what is inside your transports...? I mean... Think about it like a real battlefield.

-J.

Unit markings, signal emissions, all kinds of ways intell can do this...................

It might be fun to play with fog of war, but it's currently not in the rules.

Just think of who's in which transport as open info available to either side. If you were playing an opponent who couldn't remember the toughness of your Ogryns, would you say "I told you last turn, now you have to guess."?

It just a problem I have. I hate to get asked the same question every two seconds (exageration). I'll end up doing something, like markings or modeling different parts on to differentiate.

Am I the only one who paints the squad to match the transport? A colorful Chaos are we!

I know it can get to be quite annoying. I have a rather crippling case of dyslexia when it comes to numbers. I simply can't keep them straight in my head and there are games where I have to ask the str of this or that every time it's fired. I feel bad, but I guess you guys just have to put up with an hole like me from time to time.

Feels silly to hide what's in transports.

If your gameplay and generalship are good enough, you shouldn't need to depend on transport shellgame.

don_mondo wrote:

Alazahr wrote:Granted it would be quite hard to stop cheating, but if you thought about it literally... How can your enemy see what is inside your transports...? I mean... Think about it like a real battlefield.

-J.

Unit markings, signal emissions, all kinds of ways intell can do this...................

Speaking in terms of real life military... That means to say that the intel source is at the base the time the Commissar or etc. gets in the vehicle. That's the reason you don't salute at time either.

Granted my question was answered in the first two posts. I believe however it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I'll show you my list and yeah, my transports will be properly marked. This should fall under the same rules as a hidden Lictor. Write down what's what at the start of the game and call it good. If your opponent asks to see proof, pull it out. Yeah, you could go all Clue-like on them, but still.

-J.

arinnoor wrote:It just a problem I have. I hate to get asked the same question every two seconds (exageration). I'll end up doing something, like markings or modeling different parts on to differentiate.

Just do what the rulebook IIRC suggests: place one of the models from the transported squad on top of the transport. It gives both players a visual representation of it as well and makes it easier to remember even if you take the models off later on.

Or if you don't like the balancing act of putting models on top of another, make some kind of marker that corresponds to each of your units (for Marines and Guard etc, it's easy enough to paint a Roman numeral or something onto a spare base and place it on top of each transport; Eldar, Orks, etc can just use some kind of symbol instead) and place them on top of the relevant transport. It's not just for your opponent's sake, but it would also help you in your organisation.

Alazahr wrote:

don_mondo wrote:

Alazahr wrote:Granted it would be quite hard to stop cheating, but if you thought about it literally... How can your enemy see what is inside your transports...? I mean... Think about it like a real battlefield.

-J.

Unit markings, signal emissions, all kinds of ways intell can do this...................

Speaking in terms of real life military... That means to say that the intel source is at the base the time the Commissar or etc. gets in the vehicle. That's the reason you don't salute at time either.

Granted my question was answered in the first two posts. I believe however it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I'll show you my list and yeah, my transports will be properly marked. This should fall under the same rules as a hidden Lictor. Write down what's what at the start of the game and call it good. If your opponent asks to see proof, pull it out. Yeah, you could go all Clue-like on them, but still.

-J.

It's an abstracted game, not a simulation of real life. It's the same reason you roll dice to represent the effects of shooting rather than mounting mini rocket launchers on your models and blowing enemies up.

It annoys me as well. I have markings (tac squad symbol, dev squad symbol, etc) on all of my transports.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Am I the only one who paints the squad to match the transport? A colorful Chaos are we!

Not at all, but what if your Nurgle boys want to borrow the Berserker's ride.............?

Generally i just swap army lists with my opponent at the start and tell each other which unit is which. I've found it eliminates any problems.