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After skimming over the IG codex & realising that for about 10pts/model.. you could get 42 men which have re-rolls to WS, furious charge & are pretty immune to morale & are stubborn. This includes the required priests, commissars & CCS with various special characters.

On the other hand, my eldar guardains @ 8pts a model (which come to about 11.5ppm over 40 with an avatar, before warlock additions) are just lack lustre.

I wanted awesomeness & I just was not getting that loving feeling so I started to pick all the best bits I like about eldar & cobble them together whilst trying to keep a good troop base & heres what Ive come up with.

N.b- I could be off on points as my codex and I arent in the same place;

Farseer + Warding, fortune, doom, stones, jetbike = ~ 175

5x Warlocks + 2x Destructor, 2x Embolden, 1x Enhance, 5x Jetbikes = ~ 270

Avatar = 155

10x Dire avengers + Exarch, bladestorm, dual cats = ~152

>> Wave serpent + Tl-eml, hull shuriken cannon, star engines, spirit stones = ~155

5x Pathfinder rangers = 120

5x Pathfinder rangers = 120

Fire Prism = 115

Fire Prism = 115

Wraithlord + SC/SL/EML, wraithsword = 110-125

Now this should come to roughly 1500pts. Could someone vet that?

What do you think, C&C welcome.

Why star engines for the DA Serpent?

Because I like the idea of 36" move wave serpents/troop choices. Possibly not the best choice of upgrades but man.. three feet!

I feel like the Avatar and the Wraithlord don't mix into this well, everything else looks solid to me. Perhaps drop them and add some more warlocks and Runes of Witnessing on the Farseer.

EasyE wrote:I feel like the Avatar and the Wraithlord don't mix into this well, everything else looks solid to me. Perhaps drop them and add some more warlocks and Runes of Witnessing on the Farseer.

I disagree about the Avatar, it's a heavy hitter for a low point cost considering how much damage he can do, and the fact he'll draw fire off your other units. You have a good chance keeping him alive if you have him reroll his saves every turn.

Cut the Avatar out and put a Farseer with Doom, guide spirit stones and runes of witnessing in.

Then have him ride in the Wave Serpent with the Dire Avengers.

Cut the Wraithlord out, and put Spirit stones and holofields on both Fire Prisms.

Then you are very similar to my list .

Which might I add just won four games in a row today

just ask if you want me to post the list up

Kreedos wrote:
I disagree about the Avatar, it's a heavy hitter for a low point cost considering how much damage he can do, and the fact he'll draw fire off your other units. You have a good chance keeping him alive if you have him reroll his saves every turn.

the avatar is fantastic if considered alone, but becomes much worse when you consider how badly he combines with the rest of the army

I could cut the avatar & wraithlord for a dire avenger farseer & more warlocks but I agree with whats been said - they'll draw firepower off of my other units & they are heavy hitters. I cant afford not to fortune the warlocks, though, as they are much more point-dense. The avatar & wraithlord combo are self-suffecient.

Why wouldnt the wraithlord work well? The current selection of units/troops arent minimised too much, fireprisms without holofields @ 1500pts isnt maddness.

I wanted my cake & i ates it.

Thanks for the feedback

The wraithlord is a liability because you only have the jet-locks in your army to keep his wraithsight in check. You would be better off going fully mech I think.

good luck with your army mate, its obvious you want the list as it is.

you should play the army how you want it, even if it isnt as powerful as it could be.

combo wrote:good luck with your army mate, its obvious you want the list as it is.

you should play the army how you want it, even if it isnt as powerful as it could be.

I disagree a farseer will net me more kills than an avatar. The extra warlock body will improve the jetseer council no doubt but its putting more eggs into the same basket. Guide & doom, I think, doubles the effectiveness of dire avengers - unsaved wound wise.

My main concern was the troops section but as no-one has mentioned them thus far and with my experience of elements of them to date, im pretty much sorted & have got what I came for.

Star engines.. only because no other army can, rather than it actually being useful.

the avatar can net huge amount of kills aslong as its properly supported, I just dont think a single Wraithlord is enough support.

For instance usually people cast fortune on an avatar if they are fielding it. Its not as survivable as people think. But your only fortune is on the Warlock squad, thats a problem.

Secondly Wraithlords need a psyker close to them, otherwise they run the risk of wraithsight, your only psykers are on jetbikes and if you slow them down to keep next to the Wraithlords then they are wasting their jetbikes.

On that matter why do you have two emboldens on your Warlocks, you can never reroll a reroll.

Anyway back to the wraithlords + Avatar; they are both too slow compared to the rest of your offencive units. Your jetbikes and Wave Serpents will arrive far earlier than your WL and Avatar.

The Avatar and the Wraithlord are fantastic if they are supported properly by a psyker to stop wraithsight and to keep fortune on the Avatar till it makes it into combat.


Back to the extra farseer option increase your bladestorm exponentially with Guide and Doom.


bladestorm without Guide and Doom on MEQs.

27 shots from the Dire Avengers equals 18 hits
5 shots from the Exarch equals 4 hits

22 hits from the Squad equals 11 wounds


Now with guide and doom:


27 shots from the Dire Avengers equals 18 hits
reroll the 9 misses equals 6 extra hits
5 shots from the Exarch equals 4 hits
reroll the 1 miss equals an extra 1 hit.

29 hits from the Squad equals 15 wounds.
reroll the 14 wounds equals an extra 7 wounds.
making a total of of 22 wounds.


the Farseer doubles the amount of wounds!

combo wrote:the avatar can net huge amount of kills aslong as its properly supported, I just dont think a single Wraithlord is enough support.

It is supported enough to allow it not to get swamped. If its killed enough outright before it reaches thier lines then all the other elements of my army will be happy (and unharmed) which ive included as I have the points to do so because Ive kept the avatar team combo to a minimum.

combo wrote:
For instance usually people cast fortune on an avatar if they are fielding it. Its not as survivable as people think. But your only fortune is on the Warlock squad, thats a problem.

Jetseers are only ever gonna fortune one thing. That one thing is going to be themselves, on jetbikes. I could fortune an avatar but that would have to be from a large guardain base and/or with eldrad (probably in a tougher squad). Its as survivable as T6 & 4++ saves are concerned, along with a couple of wounds & the tougher wraithlord as a distraction. Thats enough, IMhO - but I have thought about it.
Its silly not to field such a powerful MC with a jetbike council purely because it occupies the FOC slot that a farseer would normally use to fortune it.

combo wrote:Secondly Wraithlords need a psyker close to them, otherwise they run the risk of wraithsight, your only psykers are on jetbikes and if you slow them down to keep next to the Wraithlords then they are wasting their jetbikes.

On that matter why do you have two emboldens on your Warlocks, you can never reroll a reroll.

1/6 - Im not actually worried about this all that much. Between 1st turn where the farseers jetbikes should be in range & engagement turns where the farseer will be in the same enemy lines as the wraithlord should be, im happy.

As for the second embolden - it is an essentail power. I will loose jetbiker warlocks, it is a redundancy power, simple as.

combo wrote:Anyway back to the wraithlords + Avatar; they are both too slow compared to the rest of your offencive units. Your jetbikes and Wave Serpents will arrive far earlier than your WL and Avatar.

The Avatar and the Wraithlord are fantastic if they are supported properly by a psyker to stop wraithsight and to keep fortune on the Avatar till it makes it into combat.

Good? The dire avengers do not really need close-combat counter support with an 18" assault range weapons. The serpent can also function on its own, after the drop. The jetseer council will engage things early on, which is always good, to allow the wraithlord & avatar to make it up the field. If they dont die, they will get there in a reasonable time. 6" move +D6" run is enough.

And finally, about the farseer doubling the wounds cause - Exactly what I said! But those extra 10 wounds (which equates to an additional 2-7 failed saves depending on armor) wont really out perfom the avatar.. when you factor in his -I wont go away- ness.

Well your list is not a terrible list mate, dont get that wrong. It'll serve you well, I think you've just over estimated the power of the Avatars surviability.

On top of that you have this idea that "any firepower my avatar soaks up isnt going at my squishy troops" and too a point thats true, but unfortunately the avatar is going to take anti tank levels of firepower at it, or snipers. both are not very good against masses of infantry so hes not really soaking up fire power that'd otherwise blow up swathes of your own troops.

If your opponent is silly enough to fire his anti infantry fire power at your avatar then you'll probably win anyway!

I say drop the avatar, add yriel and stick him with some DA. Leave the squad in the move phase run, have the da's bladestorm, yriel assaults depending on the target he could fire his eye at marines in a cluster or have 5 attacks hitting on 3's and wounding( pw) on 2's.

fire4effekt wrote:I say drop the avatar, add yriel and stick him with some DA. Leave the squad in the move phase run, have the da's bladestorm, yriel assaults depending on the target he could fire his eye at marines in a cluster or have 5 attacks hitting on 3's and wounding( pw) on 2's.

Um, no? The da's will be in a wave serpent & as a wave serpent is not open topped you cannot move in a movement phase if you wish to assault with the disembarking troops. The da's are ment to shoot stuff & capture objectives.. not to act as a Yriel delivery system. Hes also faaar too squish. Gimme re-rollable 3-4+ saves on 3-4T

As for the advice Combo, its appreicated. Besides the transported Dire avengers.. there arent any massed squishy troops. Ive seen pathfinders soak up just silly amounts of firepower - but ofcourse the answer is anti-cover weaponary which I have to look out for. On the first few turns of the games, besides the nacked prisms sitting at looong range & staying back - there isnt anything particularly weak to shoot at. Im just hoping ive got enough firepower to deal with hordes.

Yeah cause i don't know how to play, thats why you would assume that. Bring the wave serpent with your loddy dah star engines up in a turn, close to an enemy, then on the NEXT turn(as i know what transports are ) get the F out, move yriel away in the movement phase(the only time an IC can leave), bring the WS around to the flank and run yriel at what your 18" DA guns can shoot at, guaranteed dead. Or you can ask for CC and bitch at every suggestion.



Seacrest Out.

fire4effekt wrote:Yeah cause i don't know how to play, thats why you would assume that. Bring the wave serpent with your loddy dah star engines up in a turn, close to an enemy, then on the NEXT turn(as i know what transports are ) get the F out, move yriel away in the movement phase(the only time an IC can leave), bring the WS around to the flank and run yriel at what your 18" DA guns can shoot at, guaranteed dead. Or you can ask for CC and bitch at every suggestion.



Seacrest Out.

He gets one turn of awesome close-combat slicey goodness after which he gets mobbed or picked off by small arms fire, I dont use his (now overpriced) master stragegist abilities and he doesnt absorb much in the way of firepower like an Avatar can.

This idea is completely counter to what the army is deisgned to do - MSU which are relatively tough supporting each other. Yriel will not make it long.

Read rule #1

I appreciated everything else people have posted.

combo wrote:good luck with your army mate, its obvious you want the list as it is.

you should play the army how you want it, even if it isnt as powerful as it could be.

It seems like this needs to just be mentioned again. Is the point that you have the Avatar and Wraithlord painted up and you want to field them? Maybe it would help if you listed what you already have, and what you still need to purchase/model/paint, but as it stands, this is not a very cohesive list (units are not chosen to support a common strategy).

Fearspect wrote:

combo wrote:good luck with your army mate, its obvious you want the list as it is.

you should play the army how you want it, even if it isnt as powerful as it could be.

It seems like this needs to just be mentioned again. Is the point that you have the Avatar and Wraithlord painted up and you want to field them? Maybe it would help if you listed what you already have, and what you still need to purchase/model/paint, but as it stands, this is not a very cohesive list (units are not chosen to support a common strategy).

The common stragegy is not-dieing. But I guess ill quote this from my OP to back up what I think your trying to do..

Razerous wrote: so I started to pick all the best bits I like about eldar & cobble them together whilst trying to keep a good troop base & heres what Ive come up with.

What do you think, C&C welcome.

I'd like to highlight the words cobble, best bits & good troop base. I know its not optimized but I am trying to think outside the box.

Yes I do have the avatar & wraithlord and I want to field them together - because thier Monsterous creatures! And I want a jetseer council & I wanted a wave-serpented dire avenger storm annd I wanted pathfinders. Kinda wondering if I had the right mix. From whats said, im pretty sure I do - as most people have issues specifically with the avatar whom I know will only live aslong as 4wounds & a 4++ save will last.