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High elf list for a tournament wondering if any of this is too over the top or composition wise would anyone have issue with it, and if there isny deas that you think would work better

12 archers

15 sword masters with champion and musician (what is everyones theory on waste of points sticking in a standard bearer as they shouldnt break)

2 white lion chariots

2 repeater bolt throwers

15 white lions full command

20 spearmen with full command

1 mage 2nd level with 2 dispel scrolls

1 archmage 4th level with silver wand and ring of fury

1 noble BSB with a battle banner




i have aprox 24 silver helms a unit of 5 shadow warrior as well that I could supplement into this list if it looks to be a better plan

anyway let me know

i would run the swordmasters as two small units of 7 each, the lists looks pretty solid though. You don't have anyhting fast in there though, your frail elves are going to be ripped to shreds by soemone with shooting. I would get either a pair of eagles or the shadow warriors to try and nuetralize the enemies warmachines/archer units.

It's not over the top at all.

If anything, I'd say this list is a bit soft (assuming standard Daemon/VC/DE/EotG-Lizzie heavy meta-game) . This list doesn't quite focus on any one phase of the game, and ultimately, that's going to hurt you.

At 2k, your shooting is alright, but it's not going to dominate in the least unless you're really lucky. You'll have to hope to fight lots of armies with low armor and few monsters.

Your magic phase is weak. Either take a scroll caddy for basic magic defense for a couple of rounds (lvl 1 w/ 2 scrolls), or go the whole way and fit in a Banner of Sorcery and possibly a second level 2 mage.


Re: Swordmasters standard - it's not that they should break, so much as that they have really little armor and are likely to be shot to pieces than see combat.

Edited for bad grammar.

From my personal experience 1 bolt thrower will out perfom a small unit of archers (plus it is cheaper). Having the extra range, Armor piercing, and shot-options allows for a more tactical approach.

As Jin stated you're not focusing on one phase of the game. As I have come to understand HEs need to focus on one phase (Magic or Hth). En masse HE magic can be devastating (especially if led by Tyrion's brother). With what you listed you have the start of a decent close combat army. White Lions chariots are nasty in pairs.

Swordmasters are my new favorite unit. A unit of 20 led by a Prince tooled for hth can be devastating. IMHO the Standard of Balance is a must as it negates Hatred and Frenzy and helps to eliminate the threat of Terror and Fear. I'm fought off Khorne WoC with this unit before. I would also support the flank of these guys with a unit of White Lions. White lions do not have the killing potential of the Swordmasters, but the S6 attacks can make a dent in armor. With a BSB supporting both units you have two units that can hang around for a while.

If you decide to put a BSB in a foot-slogger unit the Armor of Caledor and a sword of might have worked for me. The 2+ save and 3 S5 attacks always help.

If you want to mount the BSB give him the Battle Banner and put him with a unit of Dragon Princes. DPs are slightly more than Silver Helms, but well worth it.

A helpful tip that I have learned from the Dakkaites is to put spearmen in 6x3 or 7x3 formations. You are loosing a rank, but gaining attacks. Don't forget that you get two ranks on the charge.

Shadow warriors are a viable choice, but only in a shooty army. Using their Scout ability will help you capture objectives or harass smaller units.

Good luck man and my Ulthuan be with you.

Ok this is all great feedback please keep it coming this is my first tournament and I've never played more than a 1500 point game. Should be noted that I have a month to finish painting what I require for the game so things that aren't painted are the chariots, shadow warriors, RBT as well as a handful of swordmasters, spearmen and white lions.

I on top of this have at least another 16 spearmen, 16 archers, 2 RBT, 5 dragon princes, 16 phoenix guard, multiple character including 2 dragons and can muster together a small 6 ellyrian reavers (none of which is painted)

To begin,
bleedge : why would you run the swordmasters in units of 7 wont that just get them killed and force them to run faster ?

Jin : Would you suggest putting in a 3rd RBT and eliminate the spearmen to put in more archers/shadow warriors to maximize some more shooting?
If I am wanting to be stronger in the magic phase would you eliminate the dispell scrolls as well as the BSB to get in another mage and some different magic items on them ?


and to all If I choose to go combat would it be smart or cheesy to run 2 1st level mages with dispel scrolls and then throw my excess points into tooling up a prince and a BSB as well as maybe some other units...in case you hadn't noticed I worry about all phases of the game . It makes sense to focus on one I just know that magic can make and break the game sometimes.

Regarding characters, correct me if I am wrong (you mentionedthe powerful beast that Tyrions brother teclis is) is it not rather frowned uponn to take special character like teclis in the army ?

Gaznab wrote:To begin,
bleedge : why would you run the swordmasters in units of 7 wont that just get them killed and force them to run faster ?

I can field this one. Mainly for flexibility. You won't get more than one rank of attackers in ever anyways and you're going to be relying more on combat damage more than anything else to win fights with the Swordmasters. Splitting up into two units lets you have an extra point of attack. Also, at 15 points a model, it's generally considered too expensive to run an extra rank just for the ablative wounds (you're not likely to get the rank bonus from them anyways by the time you get into combat, unless you're really good at keeping them from harm).

Jin : Would you suggest putting in a 3rd RBT and eliminate the spearmen to put in more archers/shadow warriors to maximize some more shooting?
If I am wanting to be stronger in the magic phase would you eliminate the dispell scrolls as well as the BSB to get in another mage and some different magic items on them ?

Personally, I like a big block of spears myself, but if you could find the points for a 3rd RBT you would not regret it. If you can't find the points for that, consider a Great Eagle.

If you want a stronger magic phase, it's nearly an absolute must to take the Banner of Sorcery. And for that, you'll need a nice heavy anvil unit that won't run easily. Personally, I prefer a block of Phoenix Guard for this task, but the White Lions unit you have could also do well in this role. Depending on what you play against, you'll still need the scrolls (I wouldn't recommend any less than 2 for a tournament). While the Battle Banner is great, I think it's better suited for a mounted BSB, if only for the extra armor and mobility. However, in that case, he would probably require an entourage of Dragon Princes, which would suggest a move toward a more aggressive list (IMO, HE Magic-Heavy lists inherently tend toward more defensiveness). All these fixes would require quite a bit of points reshuffling, though.

and to all If I choose to go combat would it be smart or cheesy to run 2 1st level mages with dispel scrolls and then throw my excess points into tooling up a prince and a BSB as well as maybe some other units...in case you hadn't noticed I worry about all phases of the game . It makes sense to focus on one I just know that magic can make and break the game sometimes.

It's hard not to want a bit of everything. With regard to shooting phase, 3 RBTs will probably tide you over quite well (Archers really won't do much). If you choose to focus on combat, you can probably get away with 1-2 scroll caddies (lvl1's with 2 dispel scrolls). I don't believe these are considered cheesy in the least (they're not cheap - points-wise, and probably won't do much more than dispel a couple of key spells).

Tip: Unless you're going to go for a Dragon-mounted Prince, stick to Nobles for combat characters - the stat increases of the prince don't quite offset the price you pay for the upgrade.

Regarding characters, correct me if I am wrong (you mentionedthe powerful beast that Tyrions brother teclis is) is it not rather frowned uponn to take special character like teclis in the army ?

Depends on your area, and your personal sentiments toward them. If you've no objections to using them and the tournament you're entering is highly competitive, I'm sure it won't be too frowned upon (depending on who you're playing against).

If you can afford the models I would suggest two eagles (instead of the reavers) they end up being more useful and cheaper than the reavers. You would lose the slot to take another bolt thrower. If you want three bolt throwers one eagle is still a safe purchase.

If you go with 1 scroll caddy you should be safe (unless your facing Tzeentch daemons, or somebody with 8+ power dice. The +1 to Dispel for HE and the two scrolls can get you some mileage for the points, but then again it depends on your opponents.

12 archers
10 archers and a musician

15 sword masters with champion and musician (what is everyones theory on waste of points sticking in a standard bearer as they shouldnt break)
14+ sword masters with full command, Banner of Sorcery, give the champion talisman to make attacks magical, add the BSB

2 white lion chariots
ok

2 repeater bolt throwers
ok, but swap one out for a pair of eagles

15 white lions full command
drop them

20 spearmen with full command
Always 21 in 3x7, or 20 plus hero.

Get another unit in return for the White Lions and put the change into Swordmasters

1 mage 2nd level with 2 dispel scrolls
silver wand, dispel scroll and power stone, weight your spells more evently amongst the magi

1 archmage 4th level with silver wand and ring of fury
Take annulian crystal and ring of fury and dispel scroll, or annulian crystal/ring of fury, dispel scroll and reaver bow.

1 noble BSB with a battle banner
Put him on barded elf steed, dragon armour, sword and shield. Maybe add lance. Make the battle standard a back banner. He goes in the unit as normal the horse takes up the room of one swordmaster and reduces the unit cost for ther second rank. The save bonus becomes all but free.

I'd like to see the Seerstaff in there if you could fit it, so you can pick your spells! This seems like one of the best pieces of magic equipment HE get! So I would definitely add it in for some offensive magic you can count on

I run swordmasters in small units of 7. It gives the enemy options to shoot at and hopefully they will survive until they can reach combat. Or another option is to run them in a large unit with a mage with the sacred incense.