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My local club is having a ongoing argument right now reguarding broadsides. As most grips that exist seem to get argued into exhastion on dakka I am guessing that someone can tell me what the just of it is. So if broad sides are behind fire warriors, they oviously get a cover save from incoming fire that comes across the fire warriors, but becasue the rule book staits that if the shots go over models does this mean that because the broad sides are taller than the fire warriors that they confer no save to the same models? Thanks for anyones help.

Yes they confer no save, because the line of fire is unobstructed.

Brother Condon wrote:My local club is having a ongoing argument right now reguarding broadsides. As most grips that exist seem to get argued into exhastion on dakka I am guessing that someone can tell me what the just of it is. So if broad sides are behind fire warriors, they oviously get a cover save from incoming fire that comes across the fire warriors, but becasue the rule book staits that if the shots go over models does this mean that because the broad sides are taller than the fire warriors that they confer no save to the same models? Thanks for anyones help.

This is the way that I have seen true LOS played. You look from the barrel of the gun, and if you can see any part of the model above the base...they don't get a cover save. Also, if there are intervening enemy units that block line of sight to 50% of the unit or more, they will get a cover save.

So, in your situation: You can look over a squad of Fire Warriors (if they are close enough to the Broadside) and fire at enemy units, as long as you can see from the base up. The Fire Warriors will cover at LEAST some part of your Broadside model, so you will get a cover save.

You would need to be elevated enough that the shots are not going "through" the fire warrior unit at all. Broadsides are not vehicles or monstrous creatures, so they only need a limb covered to qualify for a cover save.

In addition, if you are firing at a unit "between the bases" of another unit (the fire warriors for example) then it confers a cover save as well, even if LoS is completely open (of course, as long as 50% or greater of the unit is "between the bases).

The big problem here is that GW didn't really clarify what "through" a unit means, or what "between bases" really means... but it seems obvious enough. If your opponent wants to argue every LoS question for shooting through a unit... well maybe you need new opponents?

Edit @Che-Vito: it is very clear that for non-vehicle models LoS is determined from the "eyes" of the model, not from the barrel of the gun.

Willydstyle has it correct, especially the part about the eyes and not the gun. So many people I know forget that.

I changed my sig

willystyle, thanks for your post. I should first let you know that this isn't some dude complaining about, or wanting to abuse rules. It was raised randomly as one of our club members, who plays tau, was reading the rule book one day at the club. The rule stats that you give cover for shooting through a unit or two geatures of area terrain, then it specifically says that this is not the case if the shots go over the unit. so then because as you said, its from the eyes, an bradsides are taller than fire warriors the los goes above them not through them. Thanks for your help guys seems like broadsides win the day and give away no cover while reciving one. Realistically, it really does make sence I hink.

Also remember that if the Broadsides are firing at a vehicle (which they usually are), firing 'through' a unit has no bearing. What matter is if the intervening unit obscures more than 50% of the vehicle's facing.

dietrich wrote:Also remember that if the Broadsides are firing at a vehicle (which they usually are), firing 'through' a unit has no bearing. What matter is if the intervening unit obscures more than 50% of the vehicle's facing.

This also applies to Monstrous Creatures, coincidently another common target for broadsides, especially against Tyranids

This isn't a unique situation.

Ork Boyz with a line of Gretchin right in front of them generate the same scenario.

willydstyle wrote:
Edit @Che-Vito: it is very clear that for non-vehicle models LoS is determined from the "eyes" of the model, not from the barrel of the gun.

This is indeed correct, good catch.

Hum. I need to make models with parascopes now.

It's actualy one of the better things for the Tau to come out of 5th ed.