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Mierce Miniatures Darklands Ongoing News and Rumors Thread! Darklands Rulebook ships on April 18!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
KS2.5 Alpharius, not KS3... it's more of an add-on to KS2, rather than a whole new project - which is why it's being held in March. It comprises stuff we really wanted to get done for KS2, but didn't get far enough to do.

One of the main reasons for holding this project is simply to ensure we've got sculptors booked up - this is a very competitive industry!


Thanks for the clarification, and for the reasoning behind getting this campaign out so soon - apparently you've become a victim of your own success, as well as the overall amazing nature of the sculpts, and the incredible talent of the sculptors themselves!

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Mossy Troggoth






The Dankhold

gohkm wrote:
I got to admit, I'm getting a bit sick of Mierce Kickstarters. Make no mistake, their sculpts are incredible, but to throw Kickstarter after Kickstarter, it seems as if they are milking the cash cow to exhaustion.

I absolutely loved their first Kickstarter, but very little in the 2nd Kickstarter caught my attention, and now another one?

I think I might sit this one out.

greywulf wrote:Unfortunately while I've spent a ton on the last 2 kickstarters (1k total?) I probably won't be spending much from here on out. World currencies are normalizing again, ie. the Canadian dollar is rapidly returning to the value of monopoly money, on top of ever increasing Canadian taxes that take a huge portion of your earnings in order to fund poorly managed social services and grumpy government workers. Oh wonderful Canada....

I do hope to support Mierce where possible though, when and if possible, just not in any large amount...

The last few posters expressed what I was guessing at much better- that Mierce's fans just spent a lot for the most part, and don't yet have many of the minis, and so might not be ready to go in big on another KS... at least, until they work through what they've got.

I looooove many of the models, but the price keeps me away from the game itself, and the fact that it's still unproven as a game system, with a small but very loyal following. I plan to keep purchasing their minis, but if I backed their KS it would be for a particular monster or two. Many posters here seem to have pledged for multiple factions already, and I can't see a lot of them being able to afford / wanting to continue adding more at such a rapid pace.

Just food for thought... I will be watching this with great interest, just think it may be a little soon for many of their fans, as the above posters and others expressed last page.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/25 14:21:16


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

[Sets watch]

Excellent!

Though I suppose KS "2.5" will test that theory.

I think that as Mierce continues to Wow and Deliver, people will be more apt to pledge and buy with confidence though.

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Mossy Troggoth






The Dankhold

Yep it will be very interesting to see, certainly!
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




As far to the east you can get without being in Canada.

To your point Tides about the game system itself-the same blog that had the size comparison from the last Kickstarter has this nice battle report as well.

http://thebeerwaaagh.blogspot.com/2013/10/darklands-initial-battle-report.html

The maths look daunting, but with some practice it should be OK to work with. I love the Fomoriaic faction, and it has motivated me to finish up on my Tarvox today if possible.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

Funny how GW has made everyone 'math averse'!

All kidding aside, I see your point, but I think it is an attempt to show you damage and attrition make a model less effective in combat, to the point where even the 'regular' humans have a shot against the gigantic gribblies.

Also, maybe Mierce will put on a App for it!

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

I appreciate the thinking with regard to the KS, personally, I don't have a lot of cash to spend, so I didn't particularly overspend, so consequently could still be in a position to do the same this time round.

Just to put a thought out there, wouldn't it be nice of Mierce to use 2.5 to perhaps reward their loyal kS1 and 2 followers by including plenty of stretch goals and freebies at some really good value price points? Not that I feel ripped off or anything by what I've paid for their frankly awesome stuff, but with the ostensible goal of KS2 being met (production of rules) perhaps the burden of cost on 2.5 would be a lot lower?

Just sayin, Mierce, if you're reading!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Mossy Troggoth






The Dankhold

Agreed, azrael- KS1 prices were fantastic, and KS2's higher prices were in some ways justified by funding the rules. But if KS3 is priced similarly, it will reinforce the idea that buying some sweet models, but not going all in on the actual game, will be the approach most people are forced to take due to cost alone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/25 15:30:12


 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

I doubt that will happen. Considering that Mierce pays for the art and the sculpt at usually 1500-2000 gbp PER model plus they have pretty much the highest quality molding and resin I've ever seen - I've always assumed they broke even on KS1 and maybe made a little profit on KS2. I'm thinking 'freebies' in KS2.5 will be much like in KS2.

I'm totally fine with that personally. Using KS as a means to get the funds to book the sculptors in advance while offering backers a little bit of a discount seems like a good idea to me. Guess I'll start saving... of course right after I sent money to Alpharius! haha.

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

 judgedoug wrote:
I doubt that will happen. Considering that Mierce pays for the art and the sculpt at usually 1500-2000 gbp PER model plus they have pretty much the highest quality molding and resin I've ever seen - I've always assumed they broke even on KS1 and maybe made a little profit on KS2. I'm thinking 'freebies' in KS2.5 will be much like in KS2.

I'm totally fine with that personally. Using KS as a means to get the funds to book the sculptors in advance while offering backers a little bit of a discount seems like a good idea to me. Guess I'll start saving... of course right after I sent money to Alpharius! haha.


I'm aware of this of course, hence it wasn't really a serious suggestion, but if you don't ask, you don't get, and who knows, if the seed of an idea gets planted, what it might turn into?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Looky Likey

gohkm wrote:
I got to admit, I'm getting a bit sick of Mierce Kickstarters. Make no mistake, their sculpts are incredible, but to throw Kickstarter after Kickstarter, it seems as if they are milking the cash cow to exhaustion.

I absolutely loved their first Kickstarter, but very little in the 2nd Kickstarter caught my attention, and now another one?

I think I might sit this one out.
I don't mind upfront funding (what I can afford) a small company to produce high quality sculpts as at this level of quality it is expensive to produce so many miniatures especially with a large chunk of them being rather large. Established companies like Hasslefree who have an excellent in house sculpter in the form of Kev can only put out so many miniatures every month...

   
Made in us
Angry Chaos Agitator




Burbank, CA

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
KS2.5 Alpharius, not KS3... it's more of an add-on to KS2, rather than a whole new project - which is why it's being held in March. It comprises stuff we really wanted to get done for KS2, but didn't get far enough to do.

One of the main reasons for holding this project is simply to ensure we've got sculptors booked up - this is a very competitive industry!


If this is the case, I hope that this means we'll see more units for the armies who have very few. It seems based on the models shown as stretch goals which weren't achieved in KS2, there were more additions to armies who already had 3+ units. The Albain in particular are in need of more troops badly. The idea of leading into KS3 with solid hosts for each faction seems very smart, as I've felt both of the first two kickstarters at their base were supporting all the factions at once

, , , , , , ,

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




azreal wrote:I appreciate the thinking with regard to the KS, personally, I don't have a lot of cash to spend, so I didn't particularly overspend, so consequently could still be in a position to do the same this time round.

Just to put a thought out there, wouldn't it be nice of Mierce to use 2.5 to perhaps reward their loyal kS1 and 2 followers by including plenty of stretch goals and freebies at some really good value price points? Not that I feel ripped off or anything by what I've paid for their frankly awesome stuff, but with the ostensible goal of KS2 being met (production of rules) perhaps the burden of cost on 2.5 would be a lot lower?

Just sayin, Mierce, if you're reading!


That's not going to happen I'm afraid. KS1 was too cheap, but we weren't in a position to do much else; KS2 was about right, so KS2.5 will be similar to KS2 in terms of pricing.

The problem here is that people tend to judge miniature prices on Kickstarters against both CMON and Reaper, but our miniatures are completely different to theirs and if we tried to go anywhere near their prices we'd go under almost immediately. There is a reason our miniatures are of an exceptional quality, and that's because we mould and cast in house with the finest materials we can lay our hands on. We even reinforce resin poles (such as spears and standards) with brass rod to keep them straight.

Additionally, we are funding completely new miniatures in Kickstarter projects, and as Doug suggested, creating our miniatures is very expensive, let alone the costs of casting them. We don't make much profit from Kickstarter projects, but it's the only way we can fund new miniatures and further the cause of Darklands right now.

Besides, anybody who got in on KS2 got a 20% discount from our existing range as a thank you, so I wouldn't say there's no way to give away cheap stuff. That 20% discount will happen again with KS2.5, after the project finishes.

skullking wrote:If this is the case, I hope that this means we'll see more units for the armies who have very few. It seems based on the models shown as stretch goals which weren't achieved in KS2, there were more additions to armies who already had 3+ units. The Albain in particular are in need of more troops badly. The idea of leading into KS3 with solid hosts for each faction seems very smart, as I've felt both of the first two kickstarters at their base were supporting all the factions at once


The Albainn will get Gairlom (spearmen) fairly early and Oghurithne (think Rackham Giant Barbarians) not much after that; and possibly Oghur (er, Ogres) and if we get far enough Oghureach (Ogre-centaurs). The Welsh will get Teulu (hearthguard), Dynwocor (wocor-men) and possibly... well, I'll keep that one secret. That's just for starters...

In short, we'll be concentrating on kindreds with not much in the way of troops first!


Hope that helps anybody's thinking.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think I wish I could save faster,

I won't be able to afford all I want (ie everything)

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Mossy Troggoth






The Dankhold

I don't compare to CMON or Reaper... I'm more than willing to pay for quality sculpts.

But starting a new game is different. To convince people to start your system, rather than pick and choose models, they need to be able to buy in. And cost can be a factor there, just like it is for Infinity. Infinity is doing well, and many of us are willing to pay for that quality given that there's an established game along with it... but it's just something to keep in mind.

As someone on the fence, the starter packages of KS2 (at least the lower level ones including rules and just a hero at a rather high price) didn't tempt me. Maybe gear your starters without rules and you can tempt in more people... Infinity's $50 or so starters with enough models to try out the game are key for drawing in new players to their expensive-per-model game. I think their strategy is a great one to emulate, if you can.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 12:21:14


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




RiTides,
This project is about funding new miniatures, which we can't discount heavily because they are bloody expensive to make.

As I said, we give all backers 20% off RRP on our webstore afterwards, which is where you can save some cash, as existing miniatures do not need to be funded - just cast.

We can't emulate Infinity; it's a completely different game and their miniatures are cheaper than ours.

At the end of the day we don't expect loads from this next one - even half of what we got last time will fund some cracking new miniatures.

Cheers
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

With another chance at 20% off everything else and some good, new 'Skirmish' and 'Encounter' Hosts too, I think KS 2.5 will do just fine.

Quick question - I've got the HC Rulebook coming via my KS 2.0 pledge, but will the rules ever be available free online as a PDF to help get more people into the game?

And, I was only partially kidding when I said you might want to develop an App for combat resolution!

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




@Alpharius - a PDF download is very likely but it will only include the rules - no backgrounds or funky stuff.

In this day and age, where people scan rulebooks which are available to download fairly quickly, there's no point doing anything else.

Cheers
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

 Baragash wrote:
 alanmckenzie wrote:
March is far too soon for me I think. Going to have to be veeeery picky with this one. Spent so much during (and since) this ks, and will be paying it off for months yet. This next ks is going to be absolutely minimal for me.


^Sadly so much this. Infernii models, or maybe an Skirmish Host for Teulu and Dyndraig are the only things that might tempt me in, though ofc I don't know what else they have up their sleeve.


I'm hoping to see some stuff for the Atalantes or Eirann from 3, as I love the idea of a faction with a Chariots of the Gods or Slaine vibe. Finances permitting, I'll be sure to get in on KS3, as I just got the rulebook and a couple of commander minis from this one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 19:05:53


"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
@Alpharius - a PDF download is very likely but it will only include the rules - no backgrounds or funky stuff.

In this day and age, where people scan rulebooks which are available to download fairly quickly, there's no point doing anything else.

Cheers


That makes perfect sense, and is very much in the "Infinity Model" of doing things - a PDF rulebook to help grow the game, with a complete hard copy rulebook containing the background and all the art.

This is good news!

Seriously!

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




Oh no, just when I was thinking that's it, no more kickstarters, I'm putting the rest of my cash into KS2 stuff from Mierce, a KS2.5!
How will the pledge levels work on this one?
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Mossy Troggoth






The Dankhold

 Alpharius wrote:
Mierce Miniatures wrote:
@Alpharius - a PDF download is very likely but it will only include the rules - no backgrounds or funky stuff.

In this day and age, where people scan rulebooks which are available to download fairly quickly, there's no point doing anything else.

Cheers


That makes perfect sense, and is very much in the "Infinity Model" of doing things - a PDF rulebook to help grow the game, with a complete hard copy rulebook containing the background and all the art.

This is good news!

Seriously!

That's exactly what I meant- a pledge for the rulebook as a PDF (even if you haven't made it publicly downloadable yet) plus a "starter set" of minis, for a reasonable price.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 21:24:57


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness






Svalarheima, MA

Good point - I'm not sure what I should be doing...

Increasing my KS2 purchase, or spending more on KS2.5?

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

If you want more KS2 stuff get at least some now but try and keep it focused so you have more chance of picking up useful bundles

(if I had been more focused on KS1 instead of picking bits and pieces from all the factions I could have saved more on KS2 by picking up some of the bundles)

but remember if you try and pick KS2 stuff up as part of KS2.5 it's not going to be cheaper, and you'll put yourself last in the line to get stuff as they'll send out to KS2 backers before later ones

(Mierce works hard but I'm sure the gap will be several months)



EDIT:

to clarify,

If you really, really, really want it order it now

if you really, really want it think about ordering it

if you really want it wait till you see what KS2.5 offers then decide

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 22:48:26


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 JudgeShamgar wrote:
To your point Tides about the game system itself-the same blog that had the size comparison from the last Kickstarter has this nice battle report as well.

http://thebeerwaaagh.blogspot.com/2013/10/darklands-initial-battle-report.html

The maths look daunting, but with some practice it should be OK to work with. I love the Fomoriaic faction, and it has motivated me to finish up on my Tarvox today if possible.


Wow, that is so...not me...

And I used to play Star Fleet Battles...

All I can picture is 2 bearded gamers arguing over a minor rule (mis)interpretation whilst another couple of skinny white guys look on in despair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To give an indication of how much Mierce under priced KS1...

The Ygandr, Hydra of Khthon
KS price £40
Release price?

£75.99

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/28 04:51:48


 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

Mierce have you ever considered going the Kingdom Death route and getting some incredibly high quality plastics made for some core troops? Perhaps the most popular few factions, human to Tarvax-sized. It would allow newcomers to be able to more easily afford the game. Plus that Kingdom Death is doing with Wargames Factory is nothing short of amazing

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes Judgedoug, we get asked that a lot and it's one of those questions that seems obvious 'yeah, why don't they do that?' until you look at the sheer numbers of miniatures we would need, the cost and the timescales involved.

KD did over $2million dollars and will produce a similar amount of figs as our second KS that did less than a quarter of a million $. Plus we need to turn our minis around quickly to get the game going and all the kindreds expanded.

You're looking at around a year to get a plastic mini from concept into production that's IF you have the money and a date booked with someone like WGF (or more handy or us Renedra I'd want to be involved in person as often as possible for QC and trips to China would mean more time and money). Not to mention that the costs involved are MUCH higher to put each mini into production and it's a none starter.

Also, we produce in house. We're in complete and utter control of our own IP, quality (VERY important to us) and production levels. We say what happens and when, we're not at the mercy of a 3rd party, nor are we clamouring for attention with any other companies that may have more money to throw at a project than us. In-house resin production makes us more flexible. There are times when a sculptor falls behind so we jiggle production a little and once a sculpt does arrive I can have it in production in around 24 hours if I give it my full attention - that doesn't happen with 3rd parties. If I want to see how many Duguth have been cast today, I walk out of my office (where I will be sat personally cutting each and every mould we make by hand - that personal QC again!) and take ten steps to see the casting guys and can see first hand. This is a good thing.

Plastic is getting better - but the quality of resin still pees all over it - plastic is great for many things but it excels at smooth areas and is still relatively poor at high level details like fur, wrinkled skin etc. I look at things like OK Mournfang fur (a series of soft-edged triangles) and then look at our Sronax miniatures and I'm very glad we're working in resin. I'm not knocking the GW stuff it's apples and oranges. I just prefer our apples ;0)

The only way we could ever produce plastic minis is to have a KS at some point dedicated soley to that end. However, in the meantime we have many more pressing concerns. We have a full game to release and need to ensure that our kindreds are as fleshed out as possible. Maybe, at some point something like the Duguth would be great in plastic. But that's just me spit-balling right now. Metal in some areas might actually make more sense, but again that's me spitting in the wind as we have no plans to cast in any other medium than the best quality resin we can get our grubby little mitts on.

We're a small company making high-end quality sculpts that whilst expensive, they're worth the cost for the quality and the craftsmanship (IMO and I see first hand the labour involved in making each miniature). We would need to sell thousands of a plastic sprue to make it worthwhile, it's just totally unfeasible at the moment.

Plastic is barely a thought in our minds right now as we need to concentrate on the range and the game as a whole.

Plastic is seen as a holy panacea and phrases like 'slide core tooling' get thrown around seemingly in a way of saying 'you can do what you like with plastic nowadays' which is simply untrue. You can do a lot with plastics, but by and large not what we want to do right now and also again, we love resin it's the best medium full stop. 'Cast in hard plastic' is often a way of people saying 'I like your stuff but I want it cheaper' without thinking that it would bankrupt us to do so and then we wouldn't be able to make minis anymore anyway!

At the moment we're a company taking a lot of tiny steps to get a game and a great miniature range (I would put our minis up against any range in the world) up and running. We need to carry on taking small steps rather than a very risky jump across the Grand Canyon.


TL;DR Plastics? Nope, we don't have the time, monies nor inclination to use that medium at the mo. Think of us as more FW than GW in our casting approach.


Tim (who runs Production and shizzle)



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/28 10:03:10


 
   
Made in au
Sneaky Lictor





Mierce Miniatures wrote:

Plastic is getting better - but the quality of resin still pees all over it - plastic is great for many things but it excels at smooth areas and is still relatively poor at high level details like fur, wrinkled skin etc. I look at things like OK Mournfang fur (a series of soft-edged triangles) and then look at our Sronax miniatures and I'm very glad we're working in resin. I'm not knocking the GW stuff it's apples and oranges. I just prefer our apples ;0)


I heartily agree, I prefer your apples, too.

Still, my KS2 pledge remains open on Mierce, only the Kthones appealed to me, and even then, only half-heartedly. I'm not dissing your stuff, Mierce - in your KS1, I dropped close to 300 GBP.

I might just wait and see what you put up for KS2.5, but from the units you've quoted earlier on, there's very little that leaps out at me.

 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





UK

Excellent news about ks2.5 (though not so great news for my wallet).

As for the resin v plastic issue, I'm very much a resin addict. Not literally though! It pleases me to see you continuing with resins for a while and the pole stiffening work you do is much appreciated, especially as these will be game pieces as well as show pieces. The amount of times my sleeve has caught a Duguth spear. You have that sickening moment followed by relief when you see all's well!
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

Thanks Mierce for that in depth reply! And trust me I'm addicted to your resin- be sure to look at how much I've spent with you so far and that's NOT counting the dozen+ big beasties of yours I've bought from other retailers. (actually I think the only models I don't own from your entire released range might be the Terror or Fortriu and the Brythoniaid) I prefer your apples more than anyone else's fruits. Well if I hit the big $100 million lottery then I'll donate a hundred thousand to you guys to get some plastics going (and also help fund the next Dredd movie...) If only so you could have some cheaper starter sets in the future for new players with limited budgets to be able to get into the game.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/28 14:39:46


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
 
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