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Radikus wrote:
Been wanting to try out a CCB recently in my Decurion + Cult + Judicator. Moving around some points means I can kit out one fairly well. How well do they do though is the question? Seems like they would get blasted out pretty quick. What's peoples experience with them so far?

Nice buff for the army, and can help chuck out more AP3 and grab objectives if needed. Shouldn't be too easy to shoot down, though.

For me, CCB perform rather good. You just have to keep him away from large blobs unless you're very confident on getting a chance at sweeping them.

 skoffs wrote:
"Deathstars" usually want to be fast and killy.
The Orikan-Lychguard-"star" is not fast and is moderately killy.
Yes, it is borderline unkillable. And?
What's it supposed to do, just survive to prevent giving up Slay The Warlord?

It's board control. It can easily control the center third of the battlefield.

skoffs, Zhandrekh might be a good choice if you have a warlord trait you need. That dude can change his every turn if he wants. Plus the special rule stealing wouldn't be too bad for wraiths. Might end up with something nice once in a while!

I was just trying to think of some way to make sure the Lychguard units don't break. Did some fun VS matches last night out of boredom. TWC+lord vs Lychguard, obyron/Okyron.
Had an unlucky roll and lychguard were swept, though it took long enough. Both units having ++3 saves, but wolves piling on many more wounds. Being negated by lychguard being much more durable.

Zandrekh with the Decurion and 20 Flayed Ones outflanking is pretty nice. You can't deepstrike or infiltrate Zandrekh but he can outflank with them. Then he gives them all the bonuses of other units etc..

I don't think Zandrekh would be able to join Flayed Ones during deployment

He can join them in reserves hence the outflanking.

 skoffs wrote:
"Deathstars" usually want to be fast and killy.
The Orikan-Lychguard-"star" is not fast and is moderately killy.
Yes, it is borderline unkillable. And?
What's it supposed to do, just survive to prevent giving up Slay The Warlord?

Being unkillable is good enough for what you want it to do. Be a shieldwall and march up the middle of the board. Anything that wants to get to your backline has to go through them, and that's no easy task. And then you can put it on an objective (or even stretch it across multiple) and then deny and hold.

Being unkillable is worth the points. Look at the Adepticon winning list. Yes, the Screamers were fast, but the Plague Drone Star wasn't. Sure, Plague Drones can move 12, but the Heralds are 6 and since they're Nurgle the entire thing can't run and they're slowed by difficult terrain. Not a fast unit. And even with Greater Rewards for Etherblades or Baleswords, they're not altogether particularly killy. That's a 650+ point, slow moving deathstar. But you know what it did? It was all but unkillable and tied up enemies. I watched a couple of his games, he just moved the Plaguestar up through the middle of the board and stuck in Bikes, TWC, Khornestars, etc. That was their job.

Of course, Plaguestar has an edge on Lychstar just because of how big the models are, therefore making it easier to hold ground, but they're also easier to kill with ID/S10 weapons, and lose some power if the Psychic Phase doesn't go their way. Ups and downs.


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Hollismason wrote:
He can join them in reserves hence the outflanking.

There was already a YMDC on this. Basically, if you read the Infiltrators rule in the FAQ: "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa". As Zahndrekh doesn't have Infiltrate, he can't join the Flayed Ones during deployment, even if they're in Outflank reserve instead of Infiltrating. As long as they have the rule and he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.

Yeah I don't agree with that as placing units in reserve isn't deployment.

That's... that's the deployment phase. That's exactly what that is.

The book uses two different ways to interpret what deployment means, it actually defines deployment / deploying in the book as setting up your models on the table.

Deployment literally means according to the book and rules , setting models onto the table.

Reserving units is not deployment.

It's basically saying " When setting your models up on the table, you cannot join a IC to a infiltrating unit".


Not to be YMDC about it. Welcome to restart a thread, but that is literally what deployment means via the rulebook setting up models.

Well, when reserves enter they are placed on the table, so it is deployment and thus the limitation would apply.

Nope it's actually arriving from reserves, deployment and Reserves are completely two seperate things in the game.

It's a clear distinction in the rules that Deployment and Reserve are not the same thing.

Deployment literally means putting your models on the table at the beginning of the game.

What are the best tactics and load out for the CCB?

In the past I've set it up with a CC Overlord with some success by putting pressure on the flanks and destroying vehicles, but it doesn't sounds like the case now.

They could have taken everything that they did from the CCB but just gave it back Sweep Attacks and it would have had a role in my army.
As is now... I can't really say it's worth it to me.

 Nilok wrote:
What are the best tactics and load out for the CCB?

In the past I've set it up with a CC Overlord with some success by putting pressure on the flanks and destroying vehicles, but it doesn't sounds like the case now.

I've personally had fun keeping him with a Staff of Light and give the barge a Gauss Cannons, so 12" movement and chucking out 5 AP3 shots a turn, and if you're foot slogging, the Command Wave bonus is rather useful. All in all, it's a good unit (pretty cheap for a 13/13/11 chariot), and does what it's supposed to in fluff. You know, actually be there to command your army and make them do better. So it's a win-win for me.

That's how I've been using them when I do in the Decurion is just to go Staff of Light, Phase Shifter.

 skoffs wrote:
They could have taken everything that they did from the CCB but just gave it back Sweep Attacks and it would have had a role in my army.
As is now... I can't really say it's worth it to me.

I've tried it a couple of times, but it really doesn't seem worth its points.

The problems I have with it are:

- Damage output. A few S5 AP3 shots really don't seem remotely impressive for such an expensive model, and even with a Warscythe WS5 and 3 attacks aren't going to scare many units.

- Survivability. Sure, against ranged attacks it's pretty durable, which would be fine... except that it needs to be in combat to actually do anything. I don't know, maybe other people's metas are different, but I always see a ton of stuff across the table that can either really hurt the barge, or really hurt the overlord (or both). So, it's either meandering around and taking pot-shots with its Gauss Cannon, or else going on a suicide mission ("Here, have a free Slay the Warlord"). Worse still, virtually everything in the game gets to attack it first - so you often don't even get to attack with it.

Anyway, the build I was using was an Overlord with Phase Shifter, Phylactery and Voidblade. The first game it died in one round to a Wolf Lord. The second game it died to a Vortex of Doom. I have no intention of trying it in a third game.

My tactic for the CCB is to leave it in a box, on a shelf, unplayed.

So, I'm curious, what do you guys use as your Warlord?

A SC, an Overlord, a Destroyer Lord, a Cryptek?

I'm also curious as to what wargear you give them, and what units you put them with.


Also also, does anyone use Trazyn? (In a game - not as a paperweight. )

 vipoid wrote:
So, I'm curious, what do you guys use as your Warlord?

A SC, an Overlord, a Destroyer Lord, a Cryptek?

I'm also curious as to what wargear you give them, and what units you put them with.


Also also, does anyone use Trazyn? (In a game - not as a paperweight. )

I personally either used Imotekh for thematic purposes (of if I'm going heavy reserves with Flayed Ones), but most of the time I have my Generic Overlord with Voidreaper, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, and Res Orb. Rather expensive, I know, but I don't think I've given up a Warlord kill at all yet.

And I agree, Trazyn is probably the most underwhelming SC in the book, but for his price point, he's not bad. His weapon is fun against certain armies, and he'll almost never give up Warlord if you bring a Royal Court with him. He's certainly fun (and most useful than he was before), but I wouldn't classify him as any form of competitive.

 krodarklorr wrote:

I personally either used Imotekh for thematic purposes (of if I'm going heavy reserves with Flayed Ones), but most of the time I have my Generic Overlord with Voidreaper, Phase Shifter, Phylactery, and Res Orb. Rather expensive, I know, but I don't think I've given up a Warlord kill at all yet.

What unit do you put him with?

 krodarklorr wrote:

And I agree, Trazyn is probably the most underwhelming SC in the book, but for his price point, he's not bad.

Not sure I can agree with that. For 120pts... he just doesn't do anything. I mean, for 20pts less I can have an Overlord with a Warscythe - who is already miles ahead in terms of what he can threaten.

 krodarklorr wrote:
His weapon is fun against certain armies, and he'll almost never give up Warlord if you bring a Royal Court with him. He's certainly fun (and most useful than he was before), but I wouldn't classify him as any form of competitive.

The trouble is, his weapon is awful against most units and it's literally all he brings. He doesn't support his squad, and his revival ability not only requires you to buy extra HQs when making your list, but also kills them to save his useless ass.

I also disagree that he's more useful than he was before. In 5th, he was scoring, replaced much cheaper models (which you had far more incentive to bring in largeish numbers anyway), and also had MSS - which gave him utility against MCs and characters. Now, he brings a Power Maul. That's it. Oh, and he can no longer replace lyghguard, and the crypteks he replaces cost twice as much as they did before, take up HQ slots and are far more useful than he is.

Not that his old rules were good, but he at least had some things going for him. His current incarnation comprises some of most boring and useless rules GW has ever written.

If I sound bitter and disappointed, it's because I am.

I deck out my ccb with a warscythe, invuln, IWND, and the ap2 flamer.

I run it straight at the enemy acting as a vanguard for approaching wraiths. It shreds enemy vehicles, and is easily the best option for the ap2 flamer which can roast entire elite squads making a large chunk of its points back right there. Also it's nigh invulnerable to shooting especially in a decurion and is my go to hq for a decurion. IWND is nice to keep it tanking more and more shooting if the enemy chooses to shoot it.

The only problem is in assault against something that can hurt the barge. But you can move 30 inches a turn so just avoid those units or just erase it with the special flamer.


As for the question about which hq choices people are using, well I like the ccb for a decurion though zandrek is also a very good choice. For a CAD hands down the best choice is orikan since he can make any unit he joins into a monster of a unit to try and bring down.

 vipoid wrote:


Not that his old rules were good, but he at least had some things going for him. His current incarnation comprises some of most boring and useless rules GW has ever written.

If I sound bitter and disappointed, it's because I am.

I usually put him with Lychguard (Imotekh and/or my Overlord). Lychguard are so cheap now for what they do, and I've always loved them. Now I have a good reason to field them, and so I do in most lists.

I haven't used Trazyn yet personally, but I wouldn't mind in a friendly game. Where I am, his weapon would actually do a good amount of damage against a lot of targets, and I can run him forward and not worry about having him die. I don't really wanna argue his usefulness, which, yeah, he doesn't synergize well with anything, and doesn't actually do much. But for his price, I could field him and not feel bad about it, and have good fun with it. (I typically enjoy bringing a Royal Court anyway, so it would work out).

"Deathstars" usually want to be fast and killy.
The Orikan-Lychguard-"star" is not fast and is moderately killy.
Yes, it is borderline unkillable. And?
What's it supposed to do, just survive to prevent giving up Slay The Warlord?

Pretty much. It's an anchor.

Start it on the 12" and move 6 + run, to get the relic early. Don't give it up.
Slowly push up the field pressuring your opponent while your other units do the work.
It's borderline unkillable but you have to play to it's strengths, which is why i'm a fan of not over committing points to it. I like 5 LG/Orikan/zhandrek/Imotekh(2+ save), Anything that can take that out, can take out 10 LG/obyron/2+Olord/zhandrek/orikan/alltheotherIC's .

If you're playing maelstrom, put them between the two closest home objectives, they'll be able to get one of them if it's drawn, enough power to wipe most units that could contest, and they wont get shot off it.

Play them as an anvil, put the hammer elsewhere in the list.

It's interesting you say that, I've always figured 10 was the way to go.

That said, it does save 150 points...enough for a lot of options.

Anyway, the build I was using was an Overlord with Phase Shifter, Phylactery and Voidblade. The first game it died in one round to a Wolf Lord. The second game it died to a Vortex of Doom. I have no intention of trying it in a third game.

Just curious, why did a unit that can move 30" a turn end up in CC with units it couldn't handle?


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It's borderline unkillable but you have to play to it's strengths, which is why i'm a fan of not over committing points to it. I like 5 LG/Orikan/zhandrek/Imotekh(2+ save), Anything that can take that out, can take out 10 LG/obyron/2+Olord/zhandrek/orikan/alltheotherIC's .

I like that idea, I'm guessing you're doing sword and board?

For slightly more expensive but killier you can get the Warscythes and add in one more OLord with a 2+/4++. So, 5 WS guys, Imo (or other 2+/4++ guy) + one more, Orikan. Keep the Olords bookended out front to soak wounds behind their Orikan buffed 2+/4++.

That's a pretty good board control unit that should run you about 650 to 700 depending on Olord options.


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Hollismason wrote:
Yeah it's my favourite thing right now to do. If only it was possible to put a character in a Ghost Ark it would be perfect.

Yeah, relentless Warriors and an assault transport are crazy fun together. Your posts have me thinking about a Decurion with like 3 of those and a 4th GA loaded with and RC. Hmmmmm.


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Rough math gives me Dec Base + RC with :

4 GA's + Warriors ( One left vacated for the RC)

5 Immortals

3 TBs

RC:
Olord (180ish)
Olord (180ish)
Lord (90ish)
Lord (90ish)
Lord (90ish)
Orikan
Cryptek (One with Solar Staff)
Cryptek

That should put you right around 2k. That's WS/PSing all the Lords and Olords, plus plenty of room for some more upgrades to the Olords. Obviously, you have slots for any other relic you might want, here.

I know those Lords are pretty expensive like that, but with all the both Decurion buffs to RP plus Orikans save buff, paying 90 points for a two wound T5 3+/4++ RR to 1's + 4+ RR to 1's RP and a WS isn't really that bad, particularly when it has access to an AV13 assault transport.

I had a chance to play with the Necrons today, first game against Tau, ending up losing as I couldn't quite kill the Riptide that held the Relic.

Conclusions were that Shield Vanes should be auto-include on Tomb Blades, I got Seized on and they died first, offering no resistance. Not too keen on Scarabs either.

I did like the Deathmarks w/ Destroyer Lord. Although I should have really gone after the Riptide with them, they managed to remove 2 Broadsides and left the Warlord ripe for killing.

Did like the Nightscythes even though one was shot out the sky when it came on (Broadsides had Tankhunters and Skyfire so pff). Scored 10/4 hits which was tasty. Immortals were pretty solid for Troops

Heavy Destroyers are nice too. I think I'll run 2x3 as opposed to 3x2 though just to ensure something dies.

Gonna test a MSU list with Praetorians, Lychguard and maybe Deathmarks? Still in construction but should be fun all the same.

Was a good battle with plenty of food for thought..

Thinking of bringing this list considering what worked well, still getting to grips with Necrons

New Necrons w/ Destroyer Lord, Orikan, and Imotekh joined to the wraiths from the Canoptek Harvest formation is crazy. Wraiths w/ 3++ re rolling 1s. They also have protocols. I give the wraiths beamers. Add 3 Doom Scythes and everything gets eaten.

What is Imotek giving you in that squad? I run the same unit outside of the formation and kit the D lord out with the nightmare shroud and a phase shifter for lolz and it does so much work. I don't give the wraiths beamers naturally since they're not relentless, but I do give them the whips. I5 is such a big deal when you don't know what terrain is.