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So. After five years of resistance, last week I found myself in GW, buying two sets of assault on black reach and an Ork codex without really knowing why. I used to play Dark Eldar way back when, so Orks are a nice change.

Anyways. Here is a tentative army list. Its not too expensive as I can convert the same kopta into both a bike (adding wheels) and one Killa Kan leg, but I'm pretty open to changing it.

TROOPS

(1) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole = 160 points

(2) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole = 160 points

(3) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Big Choppa, Boss Pole = 135 points

(4) 20 Boyz, Shootas, Nob, Big Choppa, Boss Pole = 135 points

(5) 20 Boyz, Shootas, Nob, Boss Pole = 130 points

TOTAL - 720 points


HEADQUARTERS

(1) Ghazghkull Thraka and retinue
8 Nobz + Painboy (making 9 models total), 8 Big Choppaz, Waaagh Banner = 490 Points

TOTAL - 490 Points


FAST ATTACK

(1) 8 Warbikes, Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole = 240 Points

(2) 2 Deff Koptas, 1 Twin Linked Rokkit, 1 Kustom Mega Blasta = 85 Points

(3) 1 Deff Kopta, AKA "Objective McGrabbyson" = 35 points


TOTAL = 360


HEAVY SUPPORT

(1) 3 Killa Kans, 3 Grotzookas = 135 Points

(2) 3 Big Gunz, 6 extra crew, runt herd = 88 points

(3) Battle Wagon, Zzap Gun, Kill Cannon, 'ard Case, Armor Plates = 190 Points


TOTAL = 413 Points



Army comes out to 1983 points.

So, the big questions...

My rationale for not giving every boyz mob nob a PK was the cost. Additionally, a big choppa, on a charge, has a good chance of ripping through the back armour of most light vehicles, so I figured it wasn't bad for flexibility. The Mobz were originally 4 of 30, but I cut back to save on points and to increase my tactical flexibility. I'm wondering though if this is enough boyz (yeah, I know, never enough boyz). I could easily sacrifice the Killa Kans or another 20 shoota boys (135 points with a nob, bosspole and big choppa), but with the anti infantry abilities, general scariness, and fire absorption capabilities of the killa kans, I'm wondering if its really worth it.

HQ is another thing I'm worried about, 225 points for Thraka is a little steep, and I'm wondering whether or not to drop him for Old Zogwort, who as a warphead gives me a 1/3 chance every turn of initiating a free waaagh, decent close combat, good fire support, and the sort of unpredictability that attracted me to orks in the first place. Plus, he's 80 points less. He's a bit of a glass cannon though, and I worry that he could get offed pretty easily.

Heavy Support seems solid, but I have doubts about the battlewagon versus the looted wagon with a... I forget what its called, range 36, ordnance 1, strength 8 ap 3 gun. But if I take the battlewagon, I could always throw thraka and his lads in, as they only take up 11 slots out of twelve (killcannon takes 8 out of the 20 that normal ones have).


Anyhow, any advice you guys could give me would be great. I full expect this list to suck, and anything that can be done to make it stronger would be helpful.

Thanks for reading.

Oops, edited for typos.

TROOPS

(1) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole = 160 points

(2) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Power Klaw, Boss Pole = 160 points

(3) 20 Boyz, choppa slugga, Nob, Big Choppa, Boss Pole = 135 points

(4) 20 Boyz, Shootas, Nob, Big Choppa, Boss Pole = 135 points

(5) 20 Boyz, Shootas, Nob, Boss Pole = 130 points

TOTAL - 720 points

all the nobz NEED power klaws. i know your stiff on points, but they are your most reliable anti tank as well as having 4 str 9 atttacks on the charge will change alot of assaults. as good as ork are in CC, they dont have alot of staying power, and they do strike second against IN 4, even on the charge. you can bet a 20 man unit of orks on the charge against a tac marine squad is gonna lose a few models going in, and a few more from the manditory fist later in the combat. your PK is more of an equilizer, now that outnumbering doesnt mean crap. the fact that it can pop armor is a bonus to boot.

HEADQUARTERS

(1) Ghazghkull Thraka and retinue
8 Nobz + Painboy (making 9 models total), 8 Big Choppaz, Waaagh Banner = 490 Points

TOTAL - 490 Points

big props to ol' thraks, i use him alot now a days as well. i would get at least one PK in the nob squad, and a combi skorcha or 2 for versatility. as rock hard as the unit is, there is nothing like softening up a target with 2-3 skorcha shots before charging in.

FAST ATTACK

(1) 8 Warbikes, Nob, Power Klaw, Bosspole = 240 Points

(2) 2 Deff Koptas, 1 Twin Linked Rokkit, 1 Kustom Mega Blasta = 85 Points

(3) 1 Deff Kopta, AKA "Objective McGrabbyson" = 35 points

remember that deff koptas cannot claim objectives, they can contest but thats about it. only troops can claim in 5th. i would combine the 2 kopta units into a unit of 3, all with TL rokkits for some AT. i would outflank with them to try and get to some weaker side/rear armor. the warbikers look good.


TOTAL = 360


HEAVY SUPPORT

(1) 3 Killa Kans, 3 Grotzookas = 135 Points

(2) 3 Big Gunz, 6 extra crew, runt herd = 88 points

(3) Battle Wagon, Zzap Gun, Kill Cannon, 'ard Case, Armor Plates = 190 Points

im here or there on grotzookas. since your packing more slugga boyz then shoota boyz they might do good things for you. 6 templates a round is pretty good. i usually arm mine with rokkits, my kans are my base AT units besdies the PK's i pack in all my boyz sqyads. which big guns are you running? i like lobbas personally, but thats just me. the wagon, hrm. you seem to have a good idea of what the wagon is intended for, i dont have a comment for it.


TOTAL = 413 Points



Army comes out to 1983 points.

So, the big questions...

My rationale for not giving every boyz mob nob a PK was the cost. Additionally, a big choppa, on a charge, has a good chance of ripping through the back armour of most light vehicles, so I figured it wasn't bad for flexibility. The Mobz were originally 4 of 30, but I cut back to save on points and to increase my tactical flexibility. I'm wondering though if this is enough boyz (yeah, I know, never enough boyz). I could easily sacrifice the Killa Kans or another 20 shoota boys (135 points with a nob, bosspole and big choppa), but with the anti infantry abilities, general scariness, and fire absorption capabilities of the killa kans, I'm wondering if its really worth it.

i normally go with a unit of boyz (30) for every 500 points i use. i take shoota boyz exclusivley in the new book, they are that good. i run mine 30 strong most of the time, with 3 big shootas, a nob with PK and bosspole. i run 4 of these units as my backbone in 2000 point games. i recommend PK's on all your nobs for the reasons ive stated above. if your gonna go with special weapons for boyz i usually go with this ideal: slugga boyz dont need special weapons, they should be running if not charging. shoota boyz i pack big shootas. rokkits may seem appealing but are counter productive for the most part. while you can pop the odd tank here and there, your stopping the entire unit from shooting to do so.

HQ is another thing I'm worried about, 225 points for Thraka is a little steep, and I'm wondering whether or not to drop him for Old Zogwort, who as a warphead gives me a 1/3 chance every turn of initiating a free waaagh, decent close combat, good fire support, and the sort of unpredictability that attracted me to orks in the first place. Plus, he's 80 points less. He's a bit of a glass cannon though, and I worry that he could get offed pretty easily.

thraks is a solid choice, for a multitude of reasons. first off he is a CC monster, even without his waaaagh turn he is just brutal. second, the waaagh, this alone is worth his land raider esque price tag. the guaranteed 6 inch waaaagh gives your boyz an 18 inch threat range, which can and will catch an opponenet off guard. ol zoggy is fun, but i tend to keep him for apoc, turning c'tan and other guys into squigs

Heavy Support seems solid, but I have doubts about the battlewagon versus the looted wagon with a... I forget what its called, range 36, ordnance 1, strength 8 ap 3 gun. But if I take the battlewagon, I could always throw thraka and his lads in, as they only take up 11 slots out of twelve (killcannon takes 8 out of the 20 that normal ones have).

looted wagons blow, you spedning 10+ points for a kannon that will shoot once max almost all of the time, armor 11? pff, all the AT rolling around now adays will end that one really quick. while i dont normally advocate killkannon BW's, if its a choice between the killwagon and a boomgun looted vehicle, i will always go with the wagon

welcome to orks, ive been playing them for a long time and it took me a long time to come around to the new book. i run a basic shoota horde. my standard 1850 looks like this:

ghazzie
mek with KFF, eavy armor, cybork and burna (trying the burna out recently)

30 shoota boyz, 3 big shootas, PK nob with bosspole
30 shoota boyz, 3 big shootas, PK nob with bosspole
30 shoota boyz, 3 big shootas, PK nob with bosspole
30 shoota boyz, 3 big shootas, PK nob with bosspole

12 lootas
12 kommandos, boss snikrot and 2 burnas

3 kans, rokkits

i dont really like lootas, but again, neccesity takes presedence. 5th edition is all mechanzied, and popping transports early is key. snikrot is an auto include which pretty much means somethign in the backfield of my OP's force is gonna die or at least be tied up for a few rounds. burnas are great for versatility. i usually use them as powerweapons on the charge, but ive sometimes used them clear out an annoying guard unit nesting in some 4+ cover.

try some different stuff out, its different if your gonna JUMP IN to orks and get a bot of everything, i rarely stay with the exact same list for long, though the shoota backbone is always there.

good luck with the WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Thanks very much for your advice, and for clarification on the objectives rule. I have a couple of questions.

Firstly, how much should I gear my army towards fighting beakies? A PK is great, but am I really gong to be fighting them every other time? for 25 points, I can purchase 4 choppa boyz. Is it really worth the while gearing towards an emey that I may or may not face?

Second question, since 5th is so geared towards mechanization, is it worth just starting from scratch and playing KOS?

Third question, 30 boyz per 500 points, thats 180 points per 500, thats just over a third of total point cost on boyz alone. Is this really worth it? I realize that my current army has an even higher ratio than this, but yeah. Is more boyz really the cardinal rule?

Last question. Other than Nobz, there are no elites in my list. Is this a weakness, or the result of the way the list is geared? I would love to throw 15 burna boyz in a battle wagon with a deff rolla and just charge around messing people up, but again, against beakies, not so good. Should I be taking more elites? If so, which ones?

Thanks very much for your input.