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Does anyone know what came first, Necron or Terminator

They are very similar, as in they are both robotic race/groups, they want to kill anything not them, did they inspire each other????

I'm quite certain that the first terminator movie came out before they introduced the necrons via WD in the 90s.

I could be wrong though.

Your not. GW have used science fiction films and books for their inspiration on most of their work. This is one of the big obvious copies, like tyranids/ xenomorphs etc.
Terminator was 1984 btw. Necrons were 90's.

Seeing as there are loads of terminator references in the necron codex i would say necrons came second

Huffy wrote:Does anyone know what came first, Necron or Terminator

They are very similar, as in they are both robotic race/groups, they want to kill anything not them, did they inspire each other????

terminator in the 80s
necron in the 90s

Necrons are based off of an even older GW model, the chaos android. Back when GW partnerned with Milton Bradly to do stand alone tabletop games, a 40k scale game called "Space Crusade" and "Space Crusade: Mission Dreadnought". Still, I think "Terminator: came first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Crusade.

I can't find any good pictures on the web, so I guess i'll have to take some myself tomorrow to show.

Oh, come on, the necron rule "We'll be back" gimmie a break, that *is* the line that stuck with Arnold his whole career which was first used in Terminator as"I'll be back".

Chaos Android mini. Came out AFTER terminator. They were created by chaos squats and were a daemon engine. Basically a baby defiler.

HEre is a picture of one from the board game:

Hmm...how would a 5th edition version of that model look like? I guess Necron body, remodelled scull and chestplate and probably the rifle from a Dark Eldar Warrior...

the first metal necron that was a free blister on WD was almost dead spit-arm was different and obviously had a gauss gun, etc but you know what i mean

I wonder if they will do a Cylon theme for Necrons next.

In other news, I hear Eldar might be based on Elves. Maybe it's the other way around though.

Nerf_IG wrote: Maybe it's the other way around though.

i think tolkien, etc may be a little upset by that comment

for the same of my friends necron army, i just wish they had more then, what it is , 7 models or somesuch

Here's one of my androids from space crusade next to one of my necrons

lol nice

cool i never knew about that game 'til now

and GW has "borrowed" from alot of different places so there are lots of threads like this

hancock.tom wrote:HEre is a picture of one from the board game:

That's an Epic (aka Epic 40000, aka Space Marine) miniature.

Your top picture was the one from the Space Crusade boardgame.

So GW partnered with milton bradley... I'm thinking about Candyland but with Chaos Daemons and Eldar on a board that's full of lollipops, twizzlers, the corpses of the damned, and rainbows.

dirkthe1 wrote:

Nerf_IG wrote: Maybe it's the other way around though.

i think tolkien, etc may be a little upset by that comment

I think the Norse might have a problem with that..

GW has consistently plagiarised popular culture and history for use in it's games. There is almost nothing that is sacred, even I am continually surprised at their lack of originality.
Chaos - Satan, all his forms...
Space Marines - Interstellar Roman Empire...
Horus Heresy- Fall of Lucifer from heaven, etc....
Eldar- an obvious extension of Tolkeins elves, as are....
Orks- see above; add in depressingly unfunny cockney accents and football (read soccer for you colonial savages) hooliganism mentality...
Necrons - Obvious mirroring of Undead from fantasy, a la Nehekara. As well as the aforementioned Terminator franchise...
Tyranids- HR Giger by way of Starship Troopers...
Inquisition - Spanish Inquisition... in space! Add in beserk nuns for flavour...
Dark Eldar - Dark Elves, again in space. Allow to simmer in a warm pan for about a decade.
Imperial Guard - Red Army, Wermacht, etc...
Tau - Gundam wing, Japanese feudalism, USAF...
Lizardmen - HP Lovecraft's Old ones, cross reference with yet more milking in team Necron... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Old_Ones)
Skaven - even I was surprised at this, but alas, my favourite race is also a cheap knock off of Fafner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Mouser)
Dwarfs - Tolkein clone
Undead - Christopher Lee, fantasy staple
Elves - Tolkein clone, extra female undertones, whiter teeth...
Brettonians - medieval France, king Arthur, surely the most blatant, cringe worthy lack of inspiration GW has ever produced...
Empire - Germanic/Czech/Russian, late medieval tomfoolery...
Ogre Kingdoms - Mongolian Khanate, cross reference with Hung tribes of northern wastes...

I could go on. It's as if the writers at GW base their books on their personal holidays and library bills. I'm all for inspiration, but there seems to be a firm emphasis on 'recycling' well known sources. New players must feel like a depressing arthouse version of Indiana Jones; each discovery leaves them feeling that bit more empty inside.

This is why players like Migsula deserve their righteous acclaim after taking 40k/real life and making it their own.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/175638.page

(Just avoid threadromancy; the militant people here don't like it).

Don't forget the bits that were borrowed from Laser Burn.

And questions remain about the depiction of the (upcoming?) Kingdom Of Cathay. Going with GW's current trend; I'll assume they're slightly influenced by far eastern history...

I don't think the new fantasy army will be Cathay. They don't have any real involvement with the current armies and don't really venture out in force.

I think I sorta disagree with how your catagorising GW borrowing from previous works.

I firmly believe GW simply wanted to add a mix of a little something from all sci fi circles and probably didn't look at exact works.

Tyranids for instance, I'd blame a number of early sci fi works including movies, I could name examples but pretty much take any insect name and add " from space!!" and there you will have one of my references.

Also, being a member of the USAF, I have to ask what in the tau genre is borrowing from the USAF? I'm not doupting you there but I probably missed the reference.

Wow, everyone in this thread is SO SURE they are right! No one likes a game of "who ripped off whom" more than me (16 years ago when I was 18), but since then, I've taken the time to think about things, and I've noticed that "originality" is something prized only recently. I guess Milton "plagiarized" the Bible in Paradise Lost (and, hey, didn't I read that "Old Testament" thing somewhere else)? I guess Virgil "plagiarized" Homer when connecting the Aeneid to the Iliad. And speaking of the Iliad, wtf is with that James Joyce and Ulysses? What an unoriginal pervert he is! Shakespeare. Chaucer. Every King Arthur story ever. You got a bildungsroman? RIP OFF! Redemption of a fallen hero? RIP OFF! Power corrupts? RIP OFF!

The point being this: I understand the need for intellectual property, but the very idea that an "idea" can be owned is completely slowed and, as the lawyers say, unduly burdensome. Our whole, entire, ever-fething culture is built on the ideas that came before- built on, expanded on, alluded to, whatever! That's how things work, that's the flow of culture- until now. Now we live in a world where a company with better lawyers will have rights better enforced than those of a living, breathing human.

Do you think the Terminator is the genesis of the fear of technology? Ask the Luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddites). Ask anyone pushed past by progress.

Sorry for the Lit-Nerd Rant, but I had to get it out of my system.

3orangewhips wrote:Wow, everyone in this thread is SO SURE they are right! No one likes a game of "who ripped off whom" more than me (16 years ago when I was 18), but since then, I've taken the time to think about things, and I've noticed that "originality" is something prized only recently. I guess Milton "plagiarized" the Bible in Paradise Lost (and, hey, didn't I read that "Old Testament" thing somewhere else)? I guess Virgil "plagiarized" Homer when connecting the Aeneid to the Iliad. And speaking of the Iliad, wtf is with that James Joyce and Ulysses? What an unoriginal pervert he is! Shakespeare. Chaucer. Every King Arthur story ever. You got a bildungsroman? RIP OFF! Redemption of a fallen hero? RIP OFF! Power corrupts? RIP OFF!

The point being this: I understand the need for intellectual property, but the very idea that an "idea" can be owned is completely slowed and, as the lawyers say, unduly burdensome. Our whole, entire, ever-fething culture is built on the ideas that came before- built on, expanded on, alluded to, whatever! That's how things work, that's the flow of culture- until now. Now we live in a world where a company with better lawyers will have rights better enforced than those of a living, breathing human.

Do you think the Terminator is the genesis of the fear of technology? Ask the Luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddites). Ask anyone pushed past by progress.

Sorry for the Lit-Nerd Rant, but I had to get it out of my system.

To summarize:

Bob: I like batman.

Joe: Batman? Comics? Fiction?! That is the problem with today's youth, all this fiction blah blah blah (off topic rambling, nonsensical reference to a nonsensical post)

Really man? I mean I feel what your saying but I think you kinda took the thread to the extreme. We were more talking about inspirations than intellectual properties.

Anyway like I said, I think GW kinda thought the best way to make a great sci fi game was to add something for everyone, which worked as well as made the armies very diverse. I really can't think of any mainstream science fiction genre which is reflected in 40k...I'll make my little run down list...

IG: The common man, small of stature and big of heart! Starship troopers!
SM: The superhuman saving the day, with a hint of that noble "samurai" type of stuff. Too many movies and books to mention
Necrons: The classic collective machines, borg, terminator, ect
Tau: Helloo anime/mech/frail society made better by technology.
Nids: Overmind giant bug race! "giant ants, FROM SPACE!" Zerg!
Chaos: Modern hell/hell meets machine. Hell raiser/event horizon,ect
Elder: I see them as a take on the alien race but with the whole psionicly inclined thing going for em, most shows on sci fi channel.

You get the idea, I'm not implying GW borrowed from my examples, hell most of them came after 40k but I'm more commenting on the diversity of 40k. There is something for every geek! Hurray for marketing!

archite666 wrote:I think I sorta disagree with how your catagorising GW borrowing from previous works.

I firmly believe GW simply wanted to add a mix of a little something from all sci fi circles and probably didn't look at exact works.

Tyranids for instance, I'd blame a number of early sci fi works including movies, I could name examples but pretty much take any insect name and add " from space!!" and there you will have one of my references.

Also, being a member of the USAF, I have to ask what in the tau genre is borrowing from the USAF? I'm not doupting you there but I probably missed the reference.

Oh, don't worry; I wasn't implying that the USAF were pint sized cowards, more that they would rather destroy their enemies from afar with superior technology.

Terminator predates even RT40k by 3 years.

Elements of Terminator predate even that (Daemon with a glass hand by Harlan Ellison and subsequent lawsuit).

GW have unashamedly cribbed from everywhere. So did Shakespeare, Milton, et al.

@Grunt for Christ: While GW were the licence holders for most games in the UK (They published D&D, Cthulhu, Paranoia, and a bunch of others), they simply didn't have the resources at the time to market a boardgame to the US market. MB made the boxing and board sections, citadel/GW did the sprues/minis. The box had BOTH logos on it, but was more recognisable as a MB product than GW as MB made boardgames and were famous for them.

Not to mention the advertising required. It would be a long time before they could sell a product without mainstream media advertising. There were TV adverts for both Space Crusade and Advanced Space Crusade.

one of my favorite quotes:

"nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. if you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. and dont bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. in any case always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: "Its not where you take things from - its where you take them to."

-Jim Jarmusch (american filmaker)

GW have done exactly this with their work and it is what makes their fictional universe so compelling and interesting.