Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The fast tanks seems to only get a cursory glance by players. Even in melta vet lists I don't see people take them, favoring Valks. Fair enough. Personally, I like them, and plan on taking them. So here's some ideas on how to use them based on their abilities.

Hellhound- This is probably the most versatile variant. Being able to move 12" and shoot a flamer 12" away is almost as good as its previous stats. With all the cover saves around, the flamer template is a nice addition. Against a non-MEQ army, it will fry a whole squad easily. Another thing to consider is that a lot of units that have 'stealth' or similar types of abilities don't often have a great default armor save, so the AP4 template would be pretty effective.

Banewolf- A nastier, shorter-ranged version of the Hellhound. I think one of the neatest things this vehicle can do is fire both template weapons. The chemcannon is Str1 so counts as a defensive weapon. You could run it 12" fire the chemcannon and a hull heavy flamer, or make it more versatile by giving it a multi-melta if you want. In conjunction with a well-executed tank shock you can be dumping a lot of template goodness on a bunched-up squad. Wounding on a 2+ with AP3 has a lot of applications; its almost a guaranteed kill vs a monstrous creature that only has 1W left, so its a nice way to polish off a big nasty if you get the chance. Like the Devil Dog, this one is going to be a huge fire magnet. I think its more of a 'fun' tank than a WAAC vehicle, since you have to be so close. Personally though I enjoy the concept of a vehicle rushing into the thick of it.

Devil Dog- A possible alternative to the melta vet squad. Its about 30 odd points cheaper than a melta vet squad in a chimera, a fast vehicle and a better kill-range (Can get a 2D6 pen hit on a vehicle that's 24" away). Again, a fire magnet, but not as pricey as a Leman russ. The blast can gib Termie-type infantry and instakill multi-wound creatures. Give it a heavy flamer if you want to make it versatile, or a multimelta for a little more reliability- move 6" and shoot both! If you take Creed consider having a squad of Devildogs out-flank, and try for a side hit on a vehicle exposed on a flank.

Remember you can mix-and match different types in a squadron. The biggest disadvantage of this is that both have to fire at the same target, which might not be terribly useful. However, some combos could be handy. For example, have a hellhound paired with a banewolf. Keep the Banewolf in the front, the hellhound 3 or 4 inches behind. Dart in range, fire the chemcannon/heavy flamer of the banewolf, and the hellhound's ranged template- head-on, the hellhound will get a coversave against shooting so if you have an odd number of glances/pens (1,3,5, etc) have the majority of them allocated to the hellhound so you can make use of the 4+ cover save. Hopefully only the hellhound will eventually get destroyed, leaving the closer vehicle to hopefully be able to dump poison on a squad for a second turn.

Spot on i love the hellhound

Members of the same squadron due not confer a cover save it actually says this under squadron rules; so you cannot screen tanks with other tanks in the same squadron to give the back tanks cover saves.

Why would you get 2d6 pen from 24" with the devildog ??

Move 12, 1/2 range is 12 and hope it doesnt scatter (I won't start the debate about wether a scattering template over 12 counts as being within 12; for melta rules )

I would image the melta-range is determined from the initial point, but I'm not qualified to make a call on that. Also if it does scatter you're still rolling +2d6 for your penetration. Even against weak armor you have a shot of penetrating.

Pretty good spot for discussion about these tanks.

I think that valkyries and vendettas are good not great. Just a little bit of tactics get used, and they get marginalized.

1. They aren't tanks. Every army can wall off and cover enough space around an objective so that the valkyrie can't land within 3". You can do it with infantry, since it can't tank shock.
2. Cover saves. You don't get one unless you don't shoot

I LOVE my devildogs with heavy flamers. They can tank shock, they can move and fire, they are good against light tanks and heavy infantry, and great against heavy tanks and light infantry. You'll need 6's to hit them in close combat and I'll be blocking your movement with them with if you play an assault army. I take 6 of them.

If I'm going to be shooting with them rather than doing movement shenanigans I deploy them like this so that I get infinite cover saves...

XYZ
YZX

If you shoot a squadron from the front, the side or the rear, I'm getting a 4+ cover.


Fast vehicles make the best assault and mechanized assault screens. You can throw them in someone's face very quickly, and vehicles can't ram to get past them. When foot troops assault them, they need 6s to hit and they get so bunched up that one or two templates/blasts can do severe amounts of damage. They'll stay bunched up even after they kill your tanks because they don't get a consolidate move. not to mention that the IG tanks you mentioned have great firepower. Each one has access to both template and melta, the two most powerful types of shots in 5th edition.

I let the dogs out. All the time

I love taking Bane wolfs. They are the most targeted and feared tank I have ever seen. Players will shoot at a banewolf with smoke popped in cover over an executioner in the open. It is crazy.

foil7102 wrote:I love taking Bane wolfs. They are the most targeted and feared tank I have ever seen. Players will shoot at a banewolf with smoke popped in cover over an executioner in the open. It is crazy.

That's hysterical. But they are possibly the most lethal anti-infantry vehicle out there. In a terrain heavy/cityfight table, they would be absolutely brutal.

It would be pretty funny to see a devil dog double-ko a warwalker squadron by having the blast template end up scattering on two models. Half damage? So what when you are rolling 2D6 penetration and +1 on crits!

They make great flanking vehicles because of their speed. If an enemy deepstrikes or outflanks they are a good way of protecting slower vehicles (like LRBT's) when they try to assault them or go after their rear armor.

Squadrons of 3 could tank shock from long distances and position themselves to corner infantry/squish them (tank shock in a V formation so they have nowhere to run if backed against a wall!)

Shep wrote:Pretty good spot for discussion about these tanks.

I think that valkyries and vendettas are good not great. Just a little bit of tactics get used, and they get marginalized.

1. They aren't tanks. Every army can wall off and cover enough space around an objective so that the valkyrie can't land within 3". You can do it with infantry, since it can't tank shock.
2. Cover saves. You don't get one unless you don't shoot

I LOVE my devildogs with heavy flamers. They can tank shock, they can move and fire, they are good against light tanks and heavy infantry, and great against heavy tanks and light infantry. You'll need 6's to hit them in close combat and I'll be blocking your movement with them with if you play an assault army. I take 6 of them.

If I'm going to be shooting with them rather than doing movement shenanigans I deploy them like this so that I get infinite cover saves...

XYZ
YZX

If you shoot a squadron from the front, the side or the rear, I'm getting a 4+ cover.


Fast vehicles make the best assault and mechanized assault screens. You can throw them in someone's face very quickly, and vehicles can't ram to get past them. When foot troops assault them, they need 6s to hit and they get so bunched up that one or two templates/blasts can do severe amounts of damage. They'll stay bunched up even after they kill your tanks because they don't get a consolidate move. not to mention that the IG tanks you mentioned have great firepower. Each one has access to both template and melta, the two most powerful types of shots in 5th edition.

I let the dogs out. All the time

Yeah uh; pg. 64 The Rules Section [i] Then he takes any cover saves available to the squadron use the rules for vehicles to determine if each squadron member is in cover ( ignoring other members of the squadron as if they were not there).


I dont know maybe I am not reading it right but it would seem to me that members of the same squadron cannot offer cover saves to themselves. Unless you are stacking two units; Also remember that when firing at a unit in order to gain a cover save you have to follow vehicle rules for cover and the important part the rules for units in cover to see if they are all in cover.


To be clearly only one tank in that set up from one squadron would get a cover save or 2 tanks from the other squad would get a save but all three would not get a cover save.

I believe XYZ are three seperate squadrons and the back row of tanks are not behind the tank in their respective squadron. This could allow for cover saves for each squadron.

Sarigar is right - but its hard to keep tanks in perfect formation while moving around terrain, other units etc, so its still possible (not easy) to get a clear shot at a squadron.

I've seen hellhounds and banewolfs used - my impression is that banewolves will not kill much against a switched-on opponent, since they have to get so close. But if you want something to take the heat off your chimeras, take two seperate banewolves and full steam ahead. MEQ players will crap themselves.

Hollismason wrote:Yeah uh; pg. 64 The Rules Section

Yeah uh, thanks.

Hollismason wrote:I dont know maybe I am not reading it right

X and X are two tanks in X squadron

Y and Y are two tanks in Y squadron

Z and Z are two tanks in Z squadron


I'm not planning to truck the whole bunch around like that all game, its really for turn one and possibly turn two (especially in a dawn of war) up the flank, then they'll break off and engage with either the flamer or meltacannon. Getting that cover save in the early turns allows the rest of my army to neutralize most of my opponents anti-tank. then its a little safer to go with no cover saves.