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Hi, I've just registered on this site (been reading it for a while though) to see if I can get some tips on raising my game tactically. Here is my 1500 point eldar list, I used it in a circuit of games against my 3 regular opponents recently and it didn't do as well as I would've hoped. I feel that the army works well as long as I don't muck up the first turn movement and the dice don't go strongly against me in the second turn shooting phase - even when I pull off a good opening punch, the army seems rather fragile against other armies.

Please see 2000 point list below - feedback on that would be even more appreciated.
HQ-Autarch, Jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun, mandiblasters - 140

Troops-10 Dire Avengers, inc. Exarch w/two catapults, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Troops-Dire Avengers as above - 252

Troops-8 Pathfinders - 192

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/heavy flamer, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Fast Attack-5 Shining Spears, inc. Exarch w/star lance, skilled rider, withdraw - 237

Total: 1500 points, 46 models, 4 tanks


So, I would be glad of any input on fixable weaknesses in this list. I'm also considering what unit to get next, since I'm expanding to 2000 points. I already have spare: 2 more pathfinders, a foot autarch, 2 vypers (magnetised weapons). Not much, but I considered getting a big squad of scorpions in a wave serpent, or a couple fire prisms (but I don't look forward to assembling that huge metal cannon).

What Eldar units would be best to bolster this list? I'd rather not use guardians or artillery! I've also considered using the special character Yriel - does anyone have tactical experience with him?

The list looks quite good with three scoring units, two tank hunting units, and a counter-strike unit in the form of Shining Spears incl. Autarch.

Well, your shooting in the first turn or the first two turns is a bit weak (or non-existent) with all those short ranging shuricannons. Scatter lasers, eml's, and bright lances would serve you better to silence big tank-mounted guns.

Yriel is best used in a Seer Council.

do you have the autarch attached to the shining spears?

you definitly have enough anti tank/terminators


im not goina very helpful for ur playstyle i have 4 monsterous creatures in my thousand point

A pretty nice list, its not the convential list but I actually like it alot.

personally i'd cut a ranger or two, swap crack shot for tankhunters on the Fire Dragons. and try and swap some points to get Spirit Stones on your Wave Serpents.

Not having Spirit stones on vehicles is suicide.

people might not liek you for having that many wave serpents

you have plenty of shooty stuff but the only thing you have to really take out tanks and MC is you fire dragons but since you have two squads in a thousand point you dont really have to worry that much bout it unless they get charged by random people

definitly a strong list but i agree with the spirit stones

only thing i dont like is the fact that unless ur not running the autarch with the shining spears sumone is goina hit him wiht a STR6 weapon and hes going to get insta killed

I can see your getting the feedback that you wanted....

well hes got plenty of infantry i would toss in sumthin big liek a wraithlord or avatar...thats just my opinion i liek wrecking faces

Looks solid, I like it. I think you can get away with dropping the Fusion Gun since the Lance has a shooting attack as well, saves you ten points but it's not critical unless you intend to do something with it.

Great stuff, thanks for the feedback! I should have said that the autarch always deploys with the shining spears - even then I have to be careful of S6 melee opponents.

@ EasyE, I see your point - he's actually got 3 seperate options in the shooting phase, but at BS6 that fusion gun is just too damn handy. If he survives, he has a terrific chance of splitting off in the fourth or fifth turn and destroying tanks - two predators in the last game.

I'm not sold on spirit stones - it seems like the serpent could often be immobilised or destroyed before its ever stunned, so the 10 points ends up being wasted. If its the majority opinion, I'll try them out though. I can think of a few occassions they'd have helped. Anyone have extensive experience with star engines? I've used them once against IG, they were useful in the first turn but never used again.

Wave serpent weapons: I might like some more firepower, but compared to shuriken cannons, scatter lasers seem overpriced. Starcannons and bright lances seem overpriced as well. EMLs I would consider. Wuestenfux, you seem pretty knowledgeable about this sort of thing, is the EML+shurikencannon combo worth it? it seems a lot for a transport, but the tank could fire well at 12" speed.

looks like a good list. i'm assuming that you put your pathfinders in a nice big bit of terrain. when you do upgrade your army to 2000pts, then i would include Eldrad or a farseer and a wraithlord. but if you really want Yriel, then it may be worth getting a ten man guardian squad with a warlock. i can't tell you how many times my wraithlord has just stood there and be shot at and chopped up after failing its wraithsight


Automatically Appended Next Post:
star engines can help out one hell of alot when you need a squad on the other side of the tabl in the first turn

Here's the planned list at 2000 points, as mentioned. Changes are annotated in red.
This list is outdated, please see below
HQ-Yriel This lad just seems very hard, he could probably take on a wounded tyranid monster or a squad of marines. He'll ride with either the avengers or the flamer fire dragon squad

HQ-Autarch, Jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun, mandiblasters - 140 Stripped the mandiblasters off to fiddle points, I never modelled them anyway.

Troops-10 Dire Avengers, inc. Exarch w/two catapults, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Troops-Dire Avengers as above - 252

Troops-10 Pathfinders - 192 Bulked up pathfinder unit.

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/heavy flamer, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100

Elites-10 Striking Scorpions, inc. Exarch w/scorpion's claw, shadowstrike - 207
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons - 100 This unit gives me an outflanking assault squad to reinforce in the late game. Outflanking is great, scorpions stats seem solid, but I don't know if they'll work well assaulting from a closed vehicle. Bloody expensive unit, points and £!
Fast Attack-5 Shining Spears, inc. Exarch w/star lance, skilled rider, withdraw - 237

Total: 1999 points

Vypers didn't make the cut, they're a cool but weak unit in my opinion. I may be acquiring a squad of dark reapers to aid against MEQs, do people think they would be out of place in this force? Also, I'd like to know if 2x Fire Prism w/holofields would be a good substitute for scorpions. Not as cool visually IMO, but it would give the army more range.
All feedback welcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If yriel doesn't work out, I can remove him altogether and upgrade the serpents with more weapons, and star engines/spirt stones. Seems like a 36" move onto the board would help scorpions, they could then assault out of their stationary vehicle the next turn.

I could experiment with one wraithlord, but it seems a bit easy to avoid, I'd need a warlock or farseer to babysit it, and I like the mobility of an army where all the offense can move 24".

Well, its not solid enough.
You need to silence guns in turn one or two when the enemy army is intact.
But this cannot be achieved with short-ranged shuricannons.

Not trying to be obtuse, but what do you mean by 'not solid enough'? How may I solidify this group of T3 models? (short of taking up a plague marine army instead)

I agree about long range guns, but I don't see a great opportunity for putting them on wave serpents. Would fire prisms help? As pointed out, they could replace the scorpions, or I could even take out the avengers and use 2x5 pathfinders as troops. that seems a bit weak, but I might try it against necrons. I could lose the pathfinders and cut a few points elsewhere, but that seems to go against your point about long range shooting.

I'll muck about with upgrades (tank hunters, spirit stones etc.) and try to post an alternative 2000 point list, since that's the level I'd like to start playing at regularly.

I'm glad to see it's not just me taking slack! I could probably have been a bit more chilled with my response but hey, the guy pissed me off. I didn't really find his criticism constructive at all. More just plain criticism. Plus the idea of dropping my Tyrant from a 1500 point list seems just silly. Especially to field a load of Gaunts instead. I think my list works better. Just more use to the fluffy comments i get from youtube.
Dude. Your list. It's not solid enough.... LOL! ;D

it may worth turning those two fire dragon squads into one and striping that squad of crack shock and replacing Yriel with Fuegan, and then having Fuegan in the Fire Dragon squad

Bounty-hunt, those are both good lists. They do need some trimmin', though, and more Troops choices. With Mechdar, usually the slimmer you run the better. Max out your tanks and targets to split enemy fire, and focus your own as narrowly and efficiently as possible. Stay mobile, then deposit as many troops as possible at the last moment.

Spirit stones are always good- trust me. They contribute to the survivabilty of both the vehicle and the squad inside. They allow you to make sure the Serpent serves it's most basic function of moving stuff about. They allow you to get out of dodge when the fire is heavy. And they allow you to evade hatch-blocking that could otherwise bottle your troops up inside, helpless while their transport is taken out. ALWAYS take stones on every Eldar vehicle. I learned this the hard way!

As for vehicle armament, the EML+SC combo is indeed good vs. infantry. the 24" range is not the best on the SC, but it's only 10 points. in every turn after the first, it makes the enemy consider your Serpents a threat. This is great (outside of KP missions) as your Serpents are actually the least important part of your force.

Star engines are usually a bit redundant with Serpents. They already move 24" in a single turn, which is usually enough if you've deployed well. When you haven't (or are facing a canny opponent or even a gigantic Apoc board), 24" the first turn plus 12", 2" deployment and weapon range (12-18") the next turn are usually fine for shooty units. Star engines are really only useful for CC units that can't spend a turn out in the open, like Harlies or Banshees. Scorps (outflanking) or Dragons and DAs (shooty) don't need them.

Now on to the rest of the list: Dragons with Exarchs are only marginally better than Dragons without Exarchs, no matter the gear. Dragons shoot vehicles or armored targets, not hordes (and then they die very quickly)- so the flamer is rarely useful. As for the fusion gun and crack shot, there are simply better ways to use the points... like Stones on your vehicles.

However, I strongly disagree with statu- DO NOT lose one of the Dragon squads. Returns diminish after having more than 4 meltas in a unit, but 2 units of 6 is amazing. They will kill tanks twice as fast as one squad. Also, Fuegan is LAME.

As for Reapers- they don't belong in a mechdar army. They're the easy target for anti-MEQ fire, flamers, or sneaky CC outflanking or jump units when everything else you have is sealed up in tanks. They're alright in a gunline, but even there, being Eldar and not moving around much means you are destined to become an object illustration of that whole "doomed race" thing. I have 15 of the little buggers. They stay in the case these days unless it's an Apoc battle vs. Marines.

Actually, the same easy-targets-for-anti-MEQ-fire criticism could be said of Spears- but they're more useful and survivable thanks to their mobility. They're a serious glass hammer, and learning to protect them is a difficult process. I'm still working on it. Bike Councils are better point-for-point, but Spears are more fun.

Speaking of CC options: I'd drop the Scorpions in the 2K list. Rarely do Mechdar win on CC, unless you go for a full Swordwind list. Usually it's short-range shooting and maneuver that'll do you best. You already have 2 CC units (Spears and Yriel). Replacing the Scorps with more DAs (more scoring units, more firepower) would toughen your list. If you give those fellows PW/SS and include Yriel with them, you actually have a decent CC unit already.

Also speaking of which, Yriel is great in mech lists because of both his Autarch bonus to Reserves and his CC ability. Good choice there.

The main shortcoming of your list is too few Troops. Don't trim the other direction, and do add more. Pathfinders aren't great in mech lists. Even with a 2+ cover save, they're really vulnerable to assaults while the rest of your army is out grabbing or shooting things. DAs in Serpents will be your workhorse. I recommend at least 2 units at 1750, three at 2000. Three all the time is best.

Lastly- Prisms are great in mech. They up your anti-horde power, and double as anti-tank in a pinch. They serve as great distractions, especially for MEQ. They kill Terminators and make Deep Strikers run instead of shooting. Keep 'em cheap, just Stones to keep them alive or tank shocking. But you can't always have your cake and eat it too: either a unit of Dragons or a CC unit would have to go (on top of the Scorps) to fit 2x Prisms in your 2K list. Try a variant with 2x Prisms (the more common build) and also a variant with 2x Dragons and 2x CC (which will be more fun, but lose more often). It'll really come down to how well you protect delicate things (Spears) or use your vehicle fire.

Good lists, and good luck.

Bounty-hunt, those are both good lists. They do need some trimmin', though, and more Troops choices. With Mechdar, usually the slimmer you run the better. Max out your tanks and targets to split enemy fire, and focus your own as narrowly and efficiently as possible. Stay mobile, then deposit as many troops as possible at the last moment.

Agree.

Spirit stones are always good- trust me. They contribute to the survivabilty of both the vehicle and the squad inside. They allow you to make sure the Serpent serves it's most basic function of moving stuff about. They allow you to get out of dodge when the fire is heavy. And they allow you to evade hatch-blocking that could otherwise bottle your troops up inside, helpless while their transport is taken out. ALWAYS take stones on every Eldar vehicle. I learned this the hard way!

Agree 100percent, running naked vehicles is never a good idea. Eldar vehicles just don't have the armour save to be able to tank damage, you have to play smart.

As for vehicle armament, the EML+SC combo is indeed good vs. infantry. the 24" range is not the best on the SC, but it's only 10 points. in every turn after the first, it makes the enemy consider your Serpents a threat. This is great (outside of KP missions) as your Serpents are actually the least important part of your force.

Agree it is a nice way to rack up some anti infantry fire power, however those 10 points could be spent on spirit stones, without upping the cost of your vehicles.

Star engines are usually a bit redundant with Serpents. They already move 24" in a single turn, which is usually enough if you've deployed well. When you haven't (or are facing a canny opponent or even a gigantic Apoc board), 24" the first turn plus 12", 2" deployment and weapon range (12-18") the next turn are usually fine for shooty units. Star engines are really only useful for CC units that can't spend a turn out in the open, like Harlies or Banshees. Scorps (outflanking) or Dragons and DAs (shooty) don't need them.

I agree with this, but there is also a more crucial point that alot of people fail to notice. the wording of the star engine rules state you cannot embark or disembark on the turn you use them. Ergo if your guys have jumped back into their transport you cant use the star engines. And as Dire Avengers rarely spend more than one turn in their transport the potential power of Star Engines is reduced.

Now on to the rest of the list: Dragons with Exarchs are only marginally better than Dragons without Exarchs, no matter the gear. Dragons shoot vehicles or armored targets, not hordes (and then they die very quickly)- so the flamer is rarely useful. As for the fusion gun and crack shot, there are simply better ways to use the points... like Stones on your vehicles.

this has alot of merit to its arguement, though i do think that taking an Exarch for tank hunters is a good idea, if you have points to spare.

However, I strongly disagree with statu- DO NOT lose one of the Dragon squads. Returns diminish after having more than 4 meltas in a unit, but 2 units of 6 is amazing. They will kill tanks twice as fast as one squad. Also, Fuegan is LAME.

I think I'd be inclined to drop one of the fire dragon squads, and turn the other one into a full 10 man squad, use the points saved to get spirit stones on a few vehicles.

As for Reapers- they don't belong in a mechdar army. They're the easy target for anti-MEQ fire, flamers, or sneaky CC outflanking or jump units when everything else you have is sealed up in tanks. They're alright in a gunline, but even there, being Eldar and not moving around much means you are destined to become an object illustration of that whole "doomed race" thing. I have 15 of the little buggers. They stay in the case these days unless it's an Apoc battle vs. Marines.

I run reapers in my army currently, they usually clock up about 10-15 kills per game, but I play 80percent of the time against marines. However im planning to swap them out for either a Third Fire Prism, (for redundency, loosing one Fire Prism will no longer destroy my ability to field the one strength 10 ap 1 shot Eldar can field) or a Falcon, if I do the second option ill cut my Pathfinders and get some Fire Dragons, but that isnt really relevent to you, as you dont have any Fire Prisms either id be inclined to leave the Reapers in.

Actually, the same easy-targets-for-anti-MEQ-fire criticism could be said of Spears- but they're more useful and survivable thanks to their mobility. They're a serious glass hammer, and learning to protect them is a difficult process. I'm still working on it. Bike Councils are better point-for-point, but Spears are more fun.

Not much to say on this, I agree.

Speaking of CC options: I'd drop the Scorpions in the 2K list. Rarely do Mechdar win on CC, unless you go for a full Swordwind list. Usually it's short-range shooting and maneuver that'll do you best. You already have 2 CC units (Spears and Yriel). Replacing the Scorps with more DAs (more scoring units, more firepower) would toughen your list. If you give those fellows PW/SS and include Yriel with them, you actually have a decent CC unit already.

I too agree that cutting the Scorpions would be the best idea, however I would not replace them with more DAs, I would use the points saved + the points you could trim from the fat earlier(combining the Fire Dragons, cutting the dual shuriken catapults etc) to buy two 160 point Fire Prisms(Spirit Stones and Holofields) you could then maybe cut the Reapers for a third Fire Prism.

The main shortcoming of your list is too few Troops. Don't trim the other direction, and do add more. Pathfinders aren't great in mech lists. Even with a 2+ cover save, they're really vulnerable to assaults while the rest of your army is out grabbing or shooting things. DAs in Serpents will be your workhorse. I recommend at least 2 units at 1750, three at 2000. Three all the time is best.

Disagree, Pathfinders add a little bit of the ability to hold ground that the Mech army otherwise completely lacks.

Lastly- Prisms are great in mech. They up your anti-horde power, and double as anti-tank in a pinch. They serve as great distractions, especially for MEQ. They kill Terminators and make Deep Strikers run instead of shooting. Keep 'em cheap, just Stones to keep them alive or tank shocking. But you can't always have your cake and eat it too: either a unit of Dragons or a CC unit would have to go (on top of the Scorps) to fit 2x Prisms in your 2K list. Try a variant with 2x Prisms (the more common build) and also a variant with 2x Dragons and 2x CC (which will be more fun, but lose more often). It'll really come down to how well you protect delicate things (Spears) or use your vehicle fire.

agree, Fire Prisms are the dogs bollacks, see my earlier advice for fitting them into your army. However I do think Holofields are a neccessity, too much deep striking units and Long range Fire power to just assume that you can "position your Fire Prisms in safety"

Hope my opinions on Savnocks advice helps.

Great post by the way Savnock, I may not agree with 100percent of it but for the most part its spot on!

Wow, thanks savnock and combo, thats a lot of good advice to digest.

Statu, I agree Fuegan is a badass, but I experimented with a big fire dragon squad before, and I found it was overkill against vehicles. Against TMCs it was more valuable, but under any circumstance, one big squad is less flexible and more vulnerable to an enemy assault or an unlucky destroyed result on their wave serpent. I strongly feel 2x6 is the way to go.

Glad to hear that opinion isn't totally against the pathfinders, since I've just finished painting them! I do find them very useful for holding objectives, and their range and 2+ cover save is great protection. I need a little work on my tactics to prevent them from being hellhound or sternguard bait (not much I can do against lictors) but they are very valuable as a scoring unit that can be infiltrated into a position and fired from the first turn.

I also completely agree about the shining spears. They are too delicate to be a really reliable unit, and I feel they're slowly getting better as my tactics improve. Damn cool though. Elite jetbike troops? with lances? 'nuff said.

Here's a reworked list. I tried to get the recommended upgrades on wave werpents, with more guns for the avengers and more protection for the elite units. I've neglected the advice to drop fire dragon exarchs, simply because I feel that eldar aspect squads should be led by an exarch wherever it isn't downright stupid to do so.

HQ-Yriel

HQ-Autarch, Jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun - 130

Troops-10 Dire Avengers, inc. Exarch w/two catapults, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent with twin-linked EML, shuriken cannon (or s.stones) - 130

Troops-Dire Avengers as above - 282

Troops-10 Pathfinders - 240

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

Fast Attack-5 Shining Spears, inc. Exarch w/star lance, skilled rider, withdraw - 237

Heavy support: 5 Dark Reapers, inc. Exarch w/tempest launcher, crack shot - 217

Total: 1989 points

Further upgrades on the transports made it necessary to cut scorpions for the cheaper dark reapers. Problem, this reduces me to 4 tanks at 2000 points, not really enough to impress. What if I pulled the Reapers and pathfinders (457) and put in 10 Scorpion with a serpent (s.engines, s.stones) and 2xVypers with double shuriken cannons (452)?

That list would be faster and more agressive, but lack any stationary units putting out firepower.

Looking nice, but I see your still not too sure about the spirit stones versus shuriken cannons, to clarify, alot of the time your wave Serpents will take fire, and if they sit still for a turn it may never make it too the point you want in in time.


For the record Cutting the Reapers and pathfinders would save you 409 points not 457.

as for cutting the Reapers and pathfinders it is most definitely an option. If you were to do that I would get two Fire prisms, both with Spirit Stones and holofields, that'll be 320 points, with 89 points to spare, this could buy you a small unit of almost anything. then if you were to cut Yriel and replace him with a Farseer with this profile:

Farseer 55 points
- Runes of witnessing 15 points
- Spirit stones 20 points
- Doom 25 points
- Guide 20 points
Total cost = 135 points

you'd have 109 points(plus the 11 points your not using would be a cool 120 points) with this 120 points you could buy a small 5 man pathfinder unit to sit on objectives. or a 5man guardian jetbike unit that could quickly contest or capture objectives near the end of the game. Freeing up your Dire Avengers to be more offencive.


EDIT: if you do take the Striking Scorpion route (not that id reccomend it) never bother with Star Engines. You cant use them on the turn you embark or disembark, making them almost useless, as you'll rarely spend two turns sitting in your transport.

I'll feel free to experiment with s.stones/shuiken cannons, since they're the same cost and easy to represent on the model.
Reapers and Pathfinders are worth 457 points, but I blew out my cerebral cortex and undercosted the pathfinders in the list (fixed my mistake) Sorry for the confusion.

The things I need to buy for this list(s) are Scorpions, one wave serpent and Yriel. oh, and the dark reapers (off of a mate) Why don't I try a couple combinations of the list, always keeping in the irreplaceable dire avengers and fire dragons, and the shining spears - who might get cut later, but I'd like to keep using them for now to refine my skill in using them.

Sounds like a good plan, id also pick up a Farseer model from direct buy, its only seven pounds or less and it'll fit in very nice with your army, if giving it a different feel.

then feel free to experiment with yriel versus Farseer.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:I'll feel free to experiment with s.stones/shuiken cannons, since they're the same cost and easy to represent on the model.
Reapers and Pathfinders are worth 457 points, but I blew out my cerebral cortex and undercosted the pathfinders in the list (fixed my mistake) Sorry for the confusion.

Jesus Christ, those guys have flooded you with information....!

What the hell does a cheese mean? You stink? You're hungry? You're a good source of calcium? Make sense, man!

Cheese? i fail to see where the cheese is, this is an awsome looking list.

Oh, cheesy as in unfair. I'm pretty thick, obviously.

Everyone hear that though? This is an awesome list! I've always suspected it, now I know it! Cheers for the encouragement mate, I'll try and let you know how it fares this evening.

Not trying to be obtuse, but what do you mean by 'not solid enough'? How may I solidify this group of T3 models? (short of taking up a plague marine army instead)

Sorry, I don't want to be abusive.

My point is that all you weapons are very short ranging.
Therefore, you might need two rounds to be able to target his tanks with your shuricannons.
This would mean that your tanks are exposed to enemy fire for about two rounds.

The better option would be to be able to stun his tanks from the first round onwards.
This can be achieved by taking bright lances; an approach that has also been taken by Stelek.

My eldar lists usually fill up at least a couple heavy slots, you do have a nice looking list with no heavies... but we get so many good choices in that slot its a shame not to use them.

Prisms are a natural fit for a mech list;either tooled up as has been suggested, or running naked. The advantage to running them naked is that 3 naked prisms doesnt cost much more than 2 heavily outfitted prisms.

Pathfinders seldom do better in large groups, usually 5 are fine. If they get hit with something that ignores cover then even 10 arent going to be much more surviveable. Two groups of 5 are a LOT more durable than one group of 10.



At least experiment a bit with a farseer, they really are one of the best units in the eldar list. A farseer with runes is worth his weight in gold against opponents with psychic powers too.

Very interesting list tho, I field something so different-- its amazing how many lists the eldar can field.


Sliggoth

Played a game against tau last night. My opponent was a young guy, maybe not the greatest general ever, which was good since I'd never played against tau. Despite facing a lot of firepower in the first turns (dawn of war deployment) I managed to clear him off the board in the 6th turn. I could only play at 1500 points though. Spirit stones really helped, but I found I still didn't use long range fire from the serpents, I preferred to turboboost them in the first turn, then was able to shoot them easily from the second. I'm just not that impressed by heavy weapons on wave serpents, the shuricannons always do a bit, and they're cheap as chips. By taking off the bigger guns and reducing the pathfinder unit, I can fit in my vyper squadron:

HQ-Yriel

HQ-Autarch, Jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun - 130

Troops-10 Dire Avengers, inc. Exarch w/two catapults, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannon, s.stones - 110

Troops-Dire Avengers as above - 262

Troops-7 Pathfinders - 168

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

Fast Attack-5 Shining Spears, inc. Exarch w/star lance, skilled rider, withdraw - 237

Fast Attack-2 Vypers, 2 shuricannons each - 120

Heavy support: 5 Dark Reapers, inc. Exarch w/tempest launcher, crack shot - 217

Total: 1997 points

I'm going away this weekend, but will try to play at 2000 points next week and see how the vypers, yriel, dark reapers (new additions) and the pathfinders (they've been a bit dissapointing recently) work out.

Ive got to say I dont care for this new list at all.

HQ-Yriel

HQ-Autarch, Jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun - 130

whats with the HQs. two Melee units seems overkill. Id keep the Autarch with the shining spears but cut Yriel and get a Farseer with Doom and Guide. He doubles the effectiveness of dire Avengers.

Troops-10 Dire Avengers, inc. Exarch w/two catapults, Bladestorm - 152
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannon, s.stones - 110

Troops-Dire Avengers as above - 262

Not much to say, the weapons you put on top of wave serpents does not matter much. Missile launchers are nice but its not as though your limited on anti tank

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

Elites-6 Fire Dragons, inc. Exarch w/fusion gun, crack shot - 113
Wave Serpent with twin-linked shuriken cannons, s.stones - 110

I'd cut crack shot and take tank hunters. vehicles rarely get cover saves now and you cant reroll on the armour pen table, it only allows reroll to wounds. apart from that nice anti tank

Fast Attack-5 Shining Spears, inc. Exarch w/star lance, skilled rider, withdraw - 237

Fast Attack-2 Vypers, 2 shuricannons each - 120

the shining spears seem to work in your list but Vypers are not so good, they're weak and only ballistic skill 3, your not going to kill much with them. Remove them completely

Heavy support: 5 Dark Reapers, inc. Exarch w/tempest launcher, crack shot - 217

im going to say with your list you should cut the Dark Reapers, without them and the vypers you could buy three naked fire prisms or two holofielded and spirit stoned ones, both are good options but I lean toward the two holofielded option.