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This is a very noob question so sorry in advance.

The Rhino comes with a Storm Bolter. You may purchase a pintle mounted storm bolter.

Do you mount a storm bolter on each hatch, if you purchase the additional storm bolter? And if this is true (yes); then if you only have a single storm bolter does it always mount on the Y hatch (left if model front facing you) as the pintle can only mount on the X hatch (right hatch, again model facing you)?

In other words, is the default storm bolter arc a 45 degree arc (non pintle) and understood as based at the forward point of the Y hatch?

muzzlehead wrote:This is a very noob question so sorry in advance.

The Rhino comes with a Storm Bolter. You may purchase a pintle mounted storm bolter.

Do you mount a storm bolter on each hatch, if you purchase the additional storm bolter? And if this is true (yes); then if you only have a single storm bolter does it always mount on the Y hatch (left if model front facing you) as the pintle can only mount on the X hatch (right hatch, again model facing you)?

In other words, is the default storm bolter arc a 45 degree arc (non pintle) and understood as based at the forward point of the Y hatch?

I don't think it matters what hatch the guns are on. As for the degree, I always looked at them as 360 degrees because there is no mechanical or physical obstruction that wouldn't allow a 360. Now, if you have 2 guns next to each other, then you have a small blind spot unless one gun was elevated above the other.

I would agree with that. I know some people seem to think that the included storm bolter is hull-mounted.

Homer

So an upgraded Rhino will have both hatches mounting a storm bolter.

And both of these storm bolters are considered pintle mounted weapons?

If someone who disagrees can offer a rule or codex citation I would appreciate it.

Thanks Again

muzzlehead wrote:So an upgraded Rhino will have both hatches mounting a storm bolter.

And both of these storm bolters are considered pintle mounted weapons?

If someone who disagrees can offer a rule or codex citation I would appreciate it.

Thanks Again

Pg59 main rule book - Turret mounted weapons "...usually rotate 360 degrees...unless the design of the model prevents this."

Pg59 main rule book - Pintle-mounted weapons "...can either fire in a 360 degree arc, if mounted on a vehicle's turret: or can fire in a 45 degree arc from their mounting point, if they are mounted on the vehicle's hull."

ahhh so according to Pintel Mounted Rule: it may only fire 45 degrees from the hatch mounting point.

The Rhino nor Whirlwind may not claim a 360 mount storm bolter; as the rhino has no turret and the Whirlwind has no mounting point 'on the turret' for the storm bolter.

Where the Predator does and it also has a mounting point for a pintel mounted weapon.

muzzlehead wrote:ahhh so according to Pintel Mounted Rule: it may only fire 45 degrees from the hatch mounting point.

The Rhino nor Whirlwind may not claim a 360 mount storm bolter; as the rhino has no turret and the Whirlwind has no mounting point 'on the turret' for the storm bolter.

Where the Predator does and it also has a mounting point for a pintel mounted weapon.

Well it depends how you model them. The little rings that go in the holes on top of the vehicle are turrets, much like the military hummers. So, as I understand, there are no rules / directions saying you can't use 2 of them. Think double hatch w/ rings (rhinos). I am also sure it doesn't specify hull mounted pintle, so you can choose what it is. Infact, I am pretty sure the pintle is mounted on the ring in all the pictures I have seen, so yeah, there are your 2 360 degree guns.

If you use the little hatch to plug the hole and mount the gun on the little cross type thing, then I would say that is mounted to the hull. Otherwise, those rings spin 360, so put your guns on those.

The rulebook goes and gives us lots of lively definitions for how weapons fire, then fail to back that up in the codex's by failing to tell us.

-Sigh-

The only way to tell what "mounting" a weapon has is based on the actual physical mounting on the model. If you convert a rhino to have two storm bolters on a turret, then they have a 360 degree Arc of Fire. If you are using a Stock Rhino, they will have a 45 degree arc of fire.

I agree with you that one can model storm bolters on the hatches as one sees fit; but they are not considered turrets within the confines of the game. There are no turret mounted weapons on the Rhino. The additional bolter is clearly a pintle mounted weapon and would need to be mounted on a "... vehicle's turret..." (pg 59 Rule Book) to gain the 360 capacity.

Also the modeling instructions for the forward two hatches, have you glue the hatches in place as opposed to the no glue instructions for turret-mounted weapons on all other vehicles.

Further every vehicle with a turret explicitly states that the vehicle has a turret-mounted weapon. The Vindicator and Land Raider state hull-mounted.

So as I read the rules, a turret is explicitly offered on a vehicle and there must be an available hatch to mount the pintle-mounted weapon on the turret for it to gain a 360 degree firing arc. Otherwise it is 45 degrees and on the hull.

I think by not choosing to glue an item (or in my case magnetize an item) will not release you from the confines of this rule. The good news is that the additional storm bolter is a defensive weapon giving you a combined 4 attacks at combat speed and when joined with a 2 weapons from a transported tac squad fired from the top hatch can be fairly sweet. Also the Tac squad is not bound to fire at the same unit as the Rhino. So you can send them into the midst of battle to cause hate and discontent on multiple units.

Q. Must passengers fire at the same target that their vehicle is firing at?
A. No, they are a separate unit (albeit they are temporarily co-existing with the vehicle) and so can fire at a different target. (GW 40k Rulebook March faq 2009)

Thanks for helping me think this through.

The pintle is mounted on a rotating hatch giving it 360 degree rotation. Likewise, the storm bolter that goes next to the hatch has 360 degree rotation.

The reference to 45 degree is for pintle weapons which are hull mounted. If you look at a forgeworld baneblade it has a heavy stubber on the commander's hatch but instead of being mounted on the hatch it's mounted on the hull. Thus, it cannot rotate and has only 45 degrees of arc.

The official ruling on the firing arc for weapons is to play them "as modeled" if you are using the cupola, then you can rotate the weapon 360 degrees and fire it thusly.

That is why i do not glue down my hatches on my rhinos, so if anyone wants to fight, i have it modeled to rotate 360 degrees.

Demogerg wrote:The official ruling on the firing arc for weapons is to play them "as modeled" if you are using the cupola, then you can rotate the weapon 360 degrees and fire it thusly.

That is why i do not glue down my hatches on my rhinos, so if anyone wants to fight, i have it modeled to rotate 360 degrees.

Where can you find this ruling?

I am not challenging you but would rather be able it to share it with others when I am challenged.

muzzlehead wrote:

Demogerg wrote:The official ruling on the firing arc for weapons is to play them "as modeled" if you are using the cupola, then you can rotate the weapon 360 degrees and fire it thusly.

That is why i do not glue down my hatches on my rhinos, so if anyone wants to fight, i have it modeled to rotate 360 degrees.

Where can you find this ruling?

I am not challenging you but would rather be able it to share it with others when I am challenged.

GW FAQ

Q. On page 59, the rules for the arc of fire of pintle-mounted (or bolt-on) weapons address those mounted on turrets and those mounted directly on the hull. But what about those mounted on smaller structures (like a Rhino’s cupola) that look like they can rotate 360º, even though they aren’t proper turrets?

A. Remember that the rule is: if it looks like you can point the gun at it, then you can, even if it’s glued in place’. The rest is just a set of guidelines about the arcs of fire of weapons glued in place, and does not cover all possible weapons mounting and vehicles. If the structure the gun is pintle-mounted on is obviously capable of rotating 360º, like in the case of a Rhino’s cupola, then it should be treated as having a 360º arc of fire. However, if you mount the same storm bolter on a Razorback, even though it still can rotate 360º, it won’t obviously be able to fire through the Razorback’s main turret, and so it will have a ‘blind spot’. In the same way, the shuriken catapult mounted under the hull of a Wave Serpent, Falcon, etc. looks like it can rotate 360º, but it does not look like it can be fired through the main hull right behind it, so we normally play that it can be fired roughly in the 180º to the vehicle’s front, which seems like an acceptable compromise.

Excellent!