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HQ

138 Archon w/ Combat Drugs, Agonizer, Shadow Field, Splinter Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Trophy Racks.

Elite

298 10 Wyches, 2 Shredders, Sybarite, Combat Drugs, Agonizer, Raider, Torture Amp, Night Shield

298 10 Wyches, 2 Shredders, Sybarite, Combat Drugs, Agonizer, Raider, Torture Amp, Night Shield

284 9 Wyches, 2 Shredders, Sybarite, Combat Drugs, Agonizer, Raider, Torture Amp, Night Shield

Troop

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

186 10 Warriors, Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Terrorfex, Raider, Torture Amp

Heavy Support

120 Ravager, 3 Disentigrator

120 Ravager, 3 Disentigrator

120 Ravager, 3 Disentigrator

Total 2494

There it is let me know what you think. Thanks

Very first turn based around a lot of opponents but it's a pretty standard nasty DE list. You gonna be playing at Game Empire down in San Diego?

I will play at Hobby Chest in Jacksonville for preliminaries. If I make it to Semi's then yes I'll go wherever I need to in SoCal. Why do you ask?

Cuase i don't wanna run into your army in the first round i'm running a few landraiders and you would eat my army.

I'm actually a little worried I might be short on Lance Weapons. 9 doesn't seem like enough to me honestly. And you're safe for round 1 at least. I keep seeing all these Land Raider Lists and that's why I worry a bit. With 9 I should pop 1 or 2 but not 4 and up.

I was going to suggest swapping out a few shedders for some blasters. Sometimes you just need that one extra AT shot to pop the tank to get at the squishy guys inside....

Then the rest of the squad is useless for that turn. I normally do but am trying to optimize these units. Should I swap all of the Warrior ones out and free up 30 pts for......?

You can pop a tank then charge the squad that exited it on the same turn.... So situationally, you save that blaster shot for last, if your raiders can't pop it first, then you have one more chance w/ that mounted squad to gut them. It can be very useful if you have disembarked because you were expecting to get the charge....

I often run my wyches w/ 2 blasters, they are much safer in CC than anywhere else, so the 2 blaster shots, plus the transports dark lance, almost guarnetee they are entering combat when they want to.

the only problem i see with the wyches with blasters is can you assault the squad if you shot at the vehicle aren't they counted as two separate units?

After reading same with the warriors too. I normally run them all blasters but I think the shredders might be better with almost everything getting cover now

Well I don't have my rule book on me, I'm at work. But im 99% sure you CAN charge the squad if you shot at their transport in the shooting phase.

Edit; maybe one of the rulez guyz can jump in here and confirm that for me....

Correct, a unit that shoots at a transport can charge its occupants if they are forced to disembark. Also I would say that all these units are far to large and you are missing out on one of the best DE defences, nightshields. They should be mandatory. Shave down the wyche squads to 7-8 strong, definately drop the combat drugs dispensers from the succubi (if you brought them), drop the size of the warrior squads as well (6-7 usually does it). The goal would be to get nightshields on all the raiders (priceless I tell you) and hopefully get enough points to run a wyche dracite with wyche retinue on a raider (though you might have to drop all the torture amps to get those).

Im not a big fan of torture amps as AV 10 is to easy to pop on death or glory and they don't let you ram :(. And I am a big fan of blasters in raider squads because while the rest of the squad might not get to shoot that 1 anti-armor shot could be the one that nets you that land raider of kills that dread or puts the last wound on a demon prince.

I agree with gardeth.

For 2,5k points you are not bringing that many lances to the table. Shredders definatly got better in 5th, but they still serve a redundant role, infantry killer, and your wyches and troop squads will already do that very well on their own, especially w/ three ravagers to back 'em up. With so many shredders, and only 9 DLs, you are begging to run in to a horde army

The Blasters will increase your ability to deal with MCs, Vehicles, and 2+ save units much better, a role that needs more flushing out in this current list.

If you like the tourter amps, keep 'em, but I don't like sticking my raiders that deep in unless I absolutely need to, not to mention, you will probably run in to many fearless units, or entire armys. So it doesn't seem like an upgrade that will consistantly pay off, to me.

If you are planning on tank shocking, then shooting your template shredders and Dissys into the now re-aranged troops, you will do damage, BUT every raider that tank shocked stands a good chance of exploding next turn, killing many of your troops and elites, and leaving the haggard remains to be assulted, and come on man, this is DE, you should be making 90% of the charges....

Just MHO

I play tested this list yesterday and the shredders were a disappointment. So I will switch all of them down to Blasters. The torture amps were not that effective either so I will look to drop them. The Wych Dracite and a retinue sounds like a good idea I never thought of. I have pondered the dropping of 3 wyches per squad. They don't really seem to need 10 guys in them. The Terrorfex didn't do to well and i found out deffkoptas are a pain in my backside.

So here's my extra points

126- Get rid of 3 Wyches from each squad.
60- Change all Shredders to Blasters.
90- Drop all torture amps.

Total 176

I need 195 pts to put night shields on everything. My thought on nightshields is most heavy weapons will be well in range most of the time anyways and bolters i will be too close while dumping squads to rapid fire. If this is untrue please let me know.

To get the night shields I guess I can drop the Drugs from the succubi in the wych squads. Please let me know if this is worth it

daygo2ilm wrote:
I need 195 pts to put night shields on everything. My thought on nightshields is most heavy weapons will be well in range most of the time anyways and bolters i will be too close while dumping squads to rapid fire. If this is untrue please let me know.

Run a few games with lots of night shields. You will find that they limit Heavy weapon effectiveness, and they work twice as well against small arms. The simple fact is with that -6" to hit any gun with range 18' or less really gets punished. Marines won't be able to move and double tap your raider if you ended it's movement 13" away from them in the last phase. (MEQs move 6" Guns double tap at 12" , which becomes 6" with night shields.)

Night shields do a great job of limiting the amount of gunfire your opponent can bring against you, and DE really need to be avoiding damage, it's one of the few upgrades that actually makes them more durable, in a manner of speaking.



To get the night shields I guess I can drop the Drugs from the succubi in the wych squads. Please let me know if this is worth it

It's up to you really. Combat drugs are great but they can be a one hit wonder, and at 25 points a pop, they can be pricey. I make sure my boss has a set or two but after that the Succubus' usually just get their agonisers.

Will test it out. Need to find a something to fill in those extra few points from the drugs. Any ideas?

Well you have your elites, troops, and heavy support maxed out. DE has worthless fast attack choices. Maybe a low cost dracon w/ agoniser and drugs, but essentially she would just fill the same role as your succubus'. So I guess I would just keep the tricked out succubus', you are out of places to put points, and every thing seems pretty balanced.

Right now the list i think i'll have the biggest problem with is air cav/ mech IG. I have no idea what to do to deal with 10-12 AV12 or better vehicles. Any tactical suggestions seeing as there isn't much left to do with my list?

If you are worried about more mech, I would suggest the following.

As many blaster as possible in wyche and warrior squads. Check.

Drop one or two of the ravagers back down to 3 dark lances. A Ravager w/ 3 dark lances is one of the most reliable vehicle hunters in the game.