Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like this forum, however i always notice that someone often more than one has always a critisicm (spl?) about every list posted - has there ever been a list posted where people have actually said "well ... umm..... yep, you got everything covered there"

It's really good for pll to post and have feedback about there armies - its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me ..........

Most people that post a list on the forum are looking for criticism so they can improve their list. If a list is posted that doesn't want to be criticized, then why post it? Looking for a pat on the back or something? Just go play with it.

Dual lash is pretty perfect without a lot of deviation from one build to another though.

I don't like your tone Typeline. My main point was .....

."its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me .......... "

athba wrote:I don't like your tone Typeline. My main point was .....

."its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me .......... "

Are we speaking in some kind of code?

Well.. I'ma pretend we aren't... no list is perfect for everything.

How can you tell the tone of some ones post when its typed?

athba wrote:I don't like your tone Typeline. My main point was .....

."its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me .......... "

His tone haha?

Yes there are lists like that, they are the standard tourney builds such as: Aircav; Nob Bikers; Dual Lash

Don't get me started because you know what will happen .......... ill get myself banned from another site ..... lol

Dual lash is far from perfect and nob bikers is last years cake aircav is good but can still bebeaten. My opinion is there is no perfectlist because if there was it's the onlything that you would see at a comp tourney.

drummerholt1234 wrote:Dual lash is far from perfect and nob bikers is last years cake aircav is good but can still bebeaten. My opinion is there is no perfectlist because if there was it's the onlything that you would see at a comp tourney.

I wasn't saying perfect as in "this list always wins always" I was saying perfect as it has a perfect parameter to it. Dual lash is always two lash princes, at least six oblits, troops of the nurgle variety and possibly a few extras like havoc launchers or a squad of Zerkers.

I guess the answer i was looking for was there was no perfect list - However ..... there must be something close to the best ??

I know I'm just trying to make a point that there is no win all perfect list. I didn't mean to offend anyone just putting my two cents in LOL.

THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST

Typeline wrote:

THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST

Must be a US of A thang ......

I hate to be a syntax nazi but an Ellipsis is only ever three dots in the english language.

As stated above, probably Aircalv, Dual lash, Nidzill and nob bikers are the closest thing to being the best.

Army build have defining elements for their namesakes, but then have some leeway in filling out the points.

With what to fill out the rest of the points is going to be a decision made to fight that which is expected to present the most problems to your list. If you know that the "Your Army Killer" list is gonna show up at a tourny, it would probably be best to try and modify your list to counteract its strategy.

As you can see, there are so many elements, some of which are going to be unknown, that it is really impossible to come up with a perfect list.

Its all about the Metagame, which changes.

Dracos wrote:As stated above, probably Aircalv, Dual lash, Nidzill and nob bikers are the closest thing to being the best.

Army build have defining elements for their namesakes, but then have some leeway in filling out the points.

With what to fill out the rest of the points is going to be a decision made to fight that which is expected to present the most problems to your list. If you know that the "Your Army Killer" list is gonna show up at a tourny, it would probably be best to try and modify your list to counteract its strategy.

As you can see, there are so many elements, some of which are going to be unknown, that it is really impossible to come up with a perfect list.

Its all about the Metagame, which changes.

You are 100% correct, end of

No its the Foo fighters.

You have to be more specific with your question. Are you asking is there a perfect lists that can be built out of any given codex, variations of a army build (dual lash, nob bikers etc) or a perfect list in the entirety of the game.

Short answer: No

Long Answer: It depends

In codecies there are generally lists that will be superior to others. Dual lash, for example, is better than CSMzilla. It has the best HQ, troops and heavy support and also has a lot of synergy. It is considered the best build that the CSM codex can make. However, how these lists perform is very dependant of the meta-game and changes in the rules (mech eldar losing popularity when 5th came out is a good example). When critiqueing an army there are almost always some improvement that can be made.

Within the lists themselves there is a bit of scope to change bits and pieces. I run my dual lash with some noise marines, but other prefer to go pure plague marines. A friend of mine like to include stormboyz in his mech ork list but i have played people that just get more boyz in trukks. These little bits of variation depend really on personal preference and play style, and to a lesser extent, what you expect to play against. Some will of course do better than others, but thats down to which armies you end up playing. Usually despite any changes the list will still mostly operate in the same way

Within the whole game no list is perfect. Every list usually has a paper to its rock. Some lists will pull ahead slightly, but actually the margin by which they do better than other top tier lists is only very small. Flavour of the month armies tend to do well statistically but that is mostly down to the number of people playing them. But then the codecies are released and the meta-game changes again and people find that their previously all-powerful list doesn't really cut it any more.

I believe there is no perfect list because everyone has a different playing style and everyone sees things differently... Some people (like me) can scatter perfectly 85% of the time, other people can't. The dice are the same, but the people are different. You can have a perfect list against a person you know very well who plays an army you know backwards and forwards but against an unknown there can be no perfect list.

wolfeman wrote:How can you tell the tone of some ones post when its typed?

EzeKK wrote:

athba wrote:I don't like your tone Typeline. My main point was .....

."its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me .......... "

His tone haha?

Yes there are lists like that, they are the standard tourney builds such as: Aircav; Nob Bikers; Dual Lash

Perhaps it was the blatant sarcasm in Typeline's post? Mind like a steel sieve... Nothing gets by you. <<There, smartass comments like that, that's like a tone. You can tell what I am thinking through what I type, even if I don't explicitly say it.

And I think the OP's question is disturbingly clear, which is unfortunate considering the number of people unable to comprehend it.

The OP is asking if there's ever been a perfect list. People put their lists up. They expect criticism. If they don't get any, and instead get a comment such as "Yep, you've got everything covered there": that's what the OP wants to know--Has it ever happened? It's clear, it's specific enough. Even more so when the OP posts the second time...

As to the question at hand, I think it's plausible, but rare. Knowledge gained only by experience of what to take and what not to take that will still give your troops a fighting chance is required--is that extra armor necessary? What is the vehicle's role in my force? Will it be supporting troops or carting them around? What can I get with fifteen more points? Then someone suggests something else, some minutely different army list or a full redux, and you go through the whole army-building process again. The thing about most army lists is that they are designed to take on people they game most with--a guy who faces tyranids consistently will adjust accordingly, and as such may be unprepared against a different army. I'm interested in seeing a take-all-comers list, but lists also depend on points used in games--1500 point lists are radically different from 3000 point lists.

Rico.>

I was going to be scathing, but will say this instead:

EVERYONE has their own play style. When we critique a list, its flavored towards our own play style. As such, a list made by anyone other than ourselves will always get critiqued. Not necessarily because its a *poor* list, but because we each have our own style that we think works better and we critique along those lines.

In other words, basically exactly what I said. There's no way to counter everything without knowing exactly what role everything has and if you don't know every single nuance of every playing style there can't be a perfect list. I do believe you can have a perfectly balanced list and 'best case' list though.

combo wrote:I hate to be a syntax nazi but an Ellipsis is only ever three dots in the english language.

Actually Ellipsis can be either 3 or 4 dots, depending on the amount of ommited text, 3 dots referring to one sentence of less, and 4 dots referring to more than one sentence.

Oh no combo, you've been out-nazied.

People's idea of a perfect list will vary by metagame. I play against lots of orks, so I look at your list and think it needs more anti-horde. Bob plays against a lot of termy heavy marine armies, he might look at the same list and think it needs more anti-elite infantry. Jimmy plays against IG all the time, so he looks at it and believes it needs more anti-tank.

That is why people post things online, because you get different views on what is needed and how to get there. Honestly it is one of the most interesting things about 40K in my opinion.

Rico wrote:
Perhaps it was the blatant sarcasm in Typeline's post? Mind like a steel sieve... Nothing gets by you. <<There, smartass comments like that, that's like a tone. You can tell what I am thinking through what I type, even if I don't explicitly say it.

If it helps my case any I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or a smart ass.

I was just saying... why post a list if you aren't looking to change it?

Demogerg wrote:

combo wrote:I hate to be a syntax nazi but an Ellipsis is only ever three dots in the english language.

Actually Ellipsis can be either 3 or 4 dots, depending on the amount of ommited text, 3 dots referring to one sentence of less, and 4 dots referring to more than one sentence.

Actually, you are correct. i forgot about Ellipsis in that context, only thinking about it in the context of punctuation.

touché

My boss ends every email with elipsis. Is he trying to say every email he writes has a subtext?

It makes me want to to club him like a baby seal ...

p.s. Yeah, There have actually been generally acknowledged lists. Last one I remember was a Dual Lash list. But even most of those devolve into flame wars over how uncreative/unfluffy/cheesy/beardy/immoral they are.

There is always someone who is willing to post how <insert idea here> sucks.

athba wrote:I don't like your tone Typeline. My main point was .....

."its just i have never seen a perfect one, maybe thats a good thing - you tell me .......... "

Forum troll made my day.

Also....perfect lists *do* exist.

I have a perfect list. =) Its completely balanced, I've been working on it for 6 months tuning it, and it can take all comers. In fact, it does take all comers; I keep winning tournaments. However, I'm not going to post my awesomeness up here because I don't want my ideas to turn into the next "dual lash // nob biker" rage for my army.

Besides, your list doesn't win or lose games.

Your list: 50%
Your tactical ability: 35%
Dice rolls (and deployment): 15%