SEND IN THE NEXT WAVE (URGENT!!!)

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**smart_alex**

I need this resolved for a tourney Saturday the 13th.

Send in the next wave states:

A unit with this special rule can, at the start of the player's turn , removed from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes counting as destroyed.

I read this as "USE 1" I can chose when to invoke this. CORRECT?

Next paragraph. (1st Part)

Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the controlling player's next turn. The new unit moves onto the board from the player's board edge.

I read this as "USE 2" should they be wiped out I can still bring them back.

2nd part of paragraph (Where my question is)

The unit arrives with AS MANY MODELS and exactly the same armaments as its full strength predecessor-it is treated as a new, IDENTICAL UNIT that has just arrived from reserve.

My Question: If I have a special character attatched or independent character attached and I chose or am forced via a wipe out to use this rule Does the Character come back as well?

Remember the unit comes back with "AS MANY MODELS" also, it is a new "IDENTICAL UNIT"?

What are your thoughts?

**Deffgob**

Special rules of a unit are not given to independant characters attached to the unit, so I'd say no.

**dumplingman**

While I would like to think that it applies to independent characters I don't think so because IC's don't get the special rules of units that they join if they themselves don't posses them.

**Canonness Rory**

Nope, for the reasons above.

It'd be cool though.
COMMISSAR YARRICK TELEPORTED AWAY.

**Hollismason**

I was totally expecting a " This guy has a fething gun to my head I need this answered now or he is going to repaint my Valkyries w/ my brains"

Very Disappointed.

**Deffgob**

It may help to think of it this way: You can deploy a unit inside a vehicle, but that doesn't make the vehicle a part of the unit or vice versa. The special rule only applies to the unit that has it, not to any ICs that are deployed with them.

**Orkeosaurus**

The way I understand it, if the IC is part of the unit then the unit does not have Send in the Next Wave, only some of the models do.

If the IC is not part of the unit then he wouldn't respawn.

Now, for an attached character (like a commissar or priest) it gets trickier. I'd think that by RAW you couldn't respawn the squad, but realistically you just wouldn't be able to respawn that character.

**Balzac**

If the commissar is a purchased upgrade for the unit, then he would indeed come back with the next wave.

**Webbe**

The full strength predecessor didn't have an IC in it. He joined afterwards and made the unit full strength+1.

When the new unit comes in it is at full strength, not full strength+1.

**Emperors Faithful**

Well with the guard book you actually buy some charachters. So if they are not independant the yeah.

Also it should probably be noted that if the squad is COMPLETLY annihilated then they don't come back. There must be at least one model for you to take off.
Given that I suppose said squad could be taken of and replaced several times.

**nosferatu1001**

Emperors Faithful - you are incorrect actually - the ability to remove them is seperate from the ability to bring them back on. It simply states that "a unit that has been removed may be brought back on" - nothing stating that the removal is due to your actions only.

**Gwar!**

No, the IC does not come back into play. he gets Removed, because he is part of the unit, however the coming back on is a seperate part of the rule that only affects the conscripts.

**smart_alex**

OK I see the consensus. So the answer is NO the IC does not respawn. Agreed =...(

However now the question becomes. Can they respawn if they are killed rather than removed. I would say yes. When they are killed then they are removed from play. They are not left in play after being destroyed, they are removed. Hence I quoted two uses. One respawn at my will, one on destruction.

**Gwar!**

smart_alex wrote:OK I see the consensus. So the answer is NO the IC does not respawn. Agreed =...(

However now the question becomes. Can they respawn if they are killed rather than removed. I would say yes. When they are killed then they are removed from play. They are not left in play after being destroyed, they are removed. Hence I quoted two uses. One respawn at my will, one on destruction.

Hmm, this is tricky. The wording is pretty similar to the Nid Codex now that I re-read it.

Without Number: Any brood Without Number that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the next Tyranid turn.

Send in the Next Wave: Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the controlling player's next turn.

Well, Bugger me, its the same wording, so yeah, they will come back.

**Orkeosaurus**

I actually agree with smart_alex on that. A destroyed unit is removed from play. They were once in play. They are no longer in play. Thus, they have been removed from play.

I think it fits in with the idea of it too. They're worthless conscripts, sent in human waves as part of a WW2 soviet themed army. Denying them their ability to send another wave to their death because the first one died would be strange.

::EDIT:: Oh, well now Gwar! agrees with us too. Yay team!

**Emperors Faithful**

I'm not so sure.
Acording to the codex;

"a unit with this special rule can, at the start of the player turn, be REMOVED from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes, counting as destroyed"

Does that also apply if the sqaud was destroyed without being removed consentually?

**SlaveToDorkness**

Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beginning of the controlling player's next turn.

sure reads like it to me.

**slop27**

This rule only applies to conscripts if i remember correctly, why would you add a character to a crappy squad like that when they could serve a better purpose elsewhere?

**Orkeosaurus**

Well, a commissar could keep them in a melee. Otherwise they'd break pretty fast.

**Emperors Faithful**

The power costs about the same as another squad anyway. (mabye more?) is thatt a waste of points? Why not just get another squad?

**colonel584**

The character is an attachment to the unit, not a unit option :. they are not replaced

**Kapitan Montag**

Emperors Faithful wrote:The power costs about the same as another squad anyway. (mabye more?) is thatt a waste of points? Why not just get another squad?

I thought that too, especailly as you also have to buy commander Chenkov to have the special rule. I suppose you can up the squad to fifty models,making the squad cost 200pts, +75 points for send in the next wave. This way you spend 125 points (for SINW and Chenkov) to recycle a 200 point unit.

Maybe this is worth it if your going to need a big unit to get munched/tarpit early in the game and then swamp one of your home objectives in the end game. for those points though their are many other options that may be more useful. But it is fluffycool IMO

**Jackmojo**

It also gets more and more cost effective the more conscripts units you buy, so its more viable as a spam tactic then anything else.

Jack

**smart_alex**

Well my plan was to take, Iron hand and Yarrick.

That way when the conscripts charge, they have furious charge via iron hand and Yarrick makes them fearless and gives them the ability to re roll thier missed. So pottentially 100 S4 attacks with re rolls.