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See thread title. What is the most cost effective form of markerlight?
Is it pathfinders?
I personally don't like them because they can't fire it after disembarking, and their weapons suck.

What about piranhas?
Nice and mobile, but unless you're doing something else with it, crazy expensive.

Is it worth having a Shas'ui in FW and stealth suit squads to do it?
What about marker drones? for 30 points they don't seem very cost effective.

Pathfinders are the most efficient at just under 12 pts a model (average). Start the pathfinders on the board and have a FW squad jump in the devilfish turn 1. This way, if you were planning to put your FWs in a 'fish anyway, you've effectively avoided paying for the Devilfish.

They each have a markerlight right? So they can just stack like tons of markerlights on a squad eh?

Canonness Rory wrote:
I personally don't like them because they can't fire it after disembarking, and their weapons suck.
.

They can still fire if the D'fish hasn't moved yet. I only really see them in Apoc, where they can stack 6-7 Markerlights on a titan or 'Da Green Tide'.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Is it pathfinders?
I personally don't like them because they can't fire it after disembarking, and their weapons suck.
.

Pathfinders are the cheapest and easiest way to get markerlights on the table. Take 2 squads and have them disembark after their scout move or just have them on the board turn 1. There wep really don't suck as Str 5/ap 5 is nothing to laugh at if your actually usuing the carbine something has gone wrong...

Any other mean for getting markerlights out is either overcost (drones) or wont benifit the squad (as in the case for a FW squad having one - it cant benifit from the use).

Where are you getting makerlights on piranhas? The only tau vehilce that has them iirc is the Skyray and it has 2 networked...but due to its limited ammo and utility i find broadsides or HH to be better choices for the hvy slots.

RustyKnight wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:
I personally don't like them because they can't fire it after disembarking, and their weapons suck.
.

They can still fire if the D'fish hasn't moved yet. I only really see them in Apoc, where they can stack 6-7 Markerlights on a titan or 'Da Green Tide'.

Not true, if you disembark you count as moving that turn whether the vehicle has moved or not.

Pathfinder tetras can also take markerlights. Their stats are in one of the imperial armour books, but I don't have mine with me atm so I can't check.
Unfortunately, you can't really use them in most tournaments. :S

this:

Not true, if you disembark you count as moving that turn whether the vehicle has moved or not.

So yeah, that's without a doubt. But you can still disembark during the scout phase, correct?

Page 67 is disembarking
pg 76 is the "scouts" rule

Altimera wrote:this:

Not true, if you disembark you count as moving that turn whether the vehicle has moved or not.

So yeah, that's without a doubt. But you can still disembark during the scout phase, correct?

Page 67 is disembarking
pg 76 is the "scouts" rule

Scout grants an additional 'move' before the game begins.

It does not grant an additional 'Movement Phase' before the game begins.

A squad can only normally disembark on (and if they were embarked on a transport from) the Movement phase.

Min sized stealth suit squad with marker light drones and marker light on shas. They gain stealth, they can move and shoot and also JSJ, they can infiltrate. Worse thing about them is they take up an Elite slot.

Also I don't think pirahnas can take marker lights -- you must be thinking tetras.

Pathfinders are fine for getting markerlights. Stacking markerlight hits on threatening units is also ideal. One markerlight hit won't really do a whole lot to help, but 3-4 on there can be expended to bring all kinds of grat benefits to the shooting of the unit that utilizes them (minimizing cover saves, + BS, morale modifiers, etc etc). Their Pulse Carbines aren't as aweful as they seem either since if you hit a unit for 2-3 unsaved wounds, they're going to take 2-3 pinning checks.

Razerous wrote:
Scout grants an additional 'move' before the game begins.

It does not grant an additional 'Movement Phase' before the game begins.

A squad can only normally disembark on (and if they were embarked on a transport from) the Movement phase.

Actually, doing a quick search, I'm pretty sure the scout phase is taken exactly as the movement phase: so you can disembark at the end of the scout move if it is normally allowed (i.e. not moving flat out).

Btw, sorry for derailing.

Anyway, I have a friend who plays Tau who hates the markerlight drones because of their cost. He usually will take a skyray for markerlights before taking a drone for one.

Altimera wrote:Actually, doing a quick search, I'm pretty sure the scout phase is taken exactly as the movement phase: so you can disembark at the end of the scout move if it is normally allowed (i.e. not moving flat out).

Btw, sorry for derailing.

Anyway, I have a friend who plays Tau who hates the markerlight drones because of their cost. He usually will take a skyray for markerlights before taking a drone for one.

No, it doesnt. It is a move, "done exactly as in their Movement phase". When you are moving your scouts, as per the Scout USR, you are not doing it during a Movement Phase. I cant put it any more simply than that.

As for marker-lights, While pathfinders are the cheapest option @ 22pts a model (cheapest), 12pts/model if you use the devilfish elsehwere, you do need seperate amounts of markerlights - As somtimes it is useful firing at multiple units only needing one markerlight 'hit' to up the BS etc.

So with that in mind, markerlights on team leaders, is never a bad call. Secondly, markerlight drones with stealthteams would be the way to go (The unit type of drones mirrors that of the stealthteam, which is (essentially methinks) Jump Infantry -Jetpack)

Single markerlights on team leaders seem very subpar because you get one markerlight shot that only hits 50% of the time. You also have to invest even more points into it if you don't want to waste the entire unit's shooting on whatever you want to markerlight.

But looking at the amount pathfinders plus a decent devilfish costs.. they stop costing 12pts a unit. I mean theres a minimum threshold to pay & thats usually easily 140pts done cheaply. 200-225 for a proper squad & loadout

A team leader fire warrior (assuming you have atleast one foot-based tau dude) with a HW target lock & marker light costs about 35pts.

So really were not talking that much of a differeance. I think its wise to be able to seperate your markerlight shots. Yes one shot will only hit 50% of the time - but lets say youve got one pathfinder team & 3 seperate single markerlights... you target with the singles, on squads you need +1BS upgrades.. one at a time. You can easily get luck & up your firing all over the board, leaving the pathfinders to seriously negate cover-saves & such with multiple hits.

Razerous wrote:But looking at the amount pathfinders plus a decent devilfish costs.. they stop costing 12pts a unit. I mean theres a minimum threshold to pay & thats usually easily 140pts done cheaply. 200-225 for a proper squad & loadout

The pathfinders 'fish can be used for anybody, so a FW squad that you wanted to mech up can just use the pathfinder's fish at no extra cost. So the increased cost for the 'fish are irrelevant.

Also, the FW squad has to stand still for the team lead to shoot his markerlight. If they are jumping in and out of devilfish, there will be very little opportunity for him to actually use his markerlight.

whitedragon wrote:

Razerous wrote:But looking at the amount pathfinders plus a decent devilfish costs.. they stop costing 12pts a unit. I mean theres a minimum threshold to pay & thats usually easily 140pts done cheaply. 200-225 for a proper squad & loadout

The pathfinders 'fish can be used for anybody, so a FW squad that you wanted to mech up can just use the pathfinder's fish at no extra cost. So the increased cost for the 'fish are irrelevant.

Also, the FW squad has to stand still for the team lead to shoot his markerlight. If they are jumping in and out of devilfish, there will be very little opportunity for him to actually use his markerlight.

Yes. Okay. I did base this comment on comments I made earlier. I'll re-phrase;

Razerous wrote: theres a minimum threshold to pay.

I wasnt kidding when I said this. I already assuming there is one pathfinder squad (hence my subsequent comments, if you were to read on) and buying a pathfinder squad - while yes, if you offset the devilfish cost with the cost your already planning to pay to mech up that one mandatory Fire Warrior squads.. then thier quite cheap.

Razerous wrote: cheapest option @ 22pts a model (cheapest), 12pts/model if you use the devilfish elsehwere,

See, I did make a note of this.

BUT like I said & hence why im quoting myself - there is a minimum threshold you have to pay. You cannot simply pay 30pts for one markerlight.. you have to pay 122pts for four marker-lights. & Thats an ineffeicent small squad with a un-upgraded fish.

That is why team leader markerlights are worthwhile.

Stealth-team marker-light drones are also worthwhile, as they allow the squad to retain mobility, are networked so can be used with massed burst cannon fire & make use of the stealthfield rule & @ 30pts thier not actually relatively all that expensive.

I like the stealthsuit/marker drone combo much more than I like the FW combo. If you look at it as Pathfinders being worth 22pts per markerlight because of the fish, it is only fair that you consider the points cost of th rest of the FW unit that you put the markerlight in. The FW markerlights get very expensive at that point and are unreliable at best because you're only getting one BS3 shot per FW unit.

I also think that Devilfish is going to be a lot more useful than some grossly overcosted and underperforming Fire Warriors will be (the only thing they have going for them is that they're scoring... but Kroot are better at that unless the FW are meched up IMO).

I'm throwing in another vote for pathfinders. My tau buddy has used all combinations and the pathfinders seem to be the most effective overall. Take all situations/deployments/enemies into consideration and from his perspective the pathfinders are the best option... Though he isn't very fond of them from the start it's his begrudging choice that seems to work relatively well most of the time.

I mean.. if you want your one mandatory 6man FW squad in that first pathfinder devilfish - then cool, I agree.

If you want a second FW squad (or need that fish elsewhere) then FW's arent a complete liability sitting in cover and shooting at anything within 30". A target lock markerlight only costs 35pts, all in all, and gives you another single seperate source of markerlight hits. Only if your fielding the squad as a sit there & shoot squad.

You only ever get BS3 markerlights anyway (besides sniperr drones, yes, I know. Played against them & they were awesome, popping rhinos, pinning & killing marines.. Until in a different matchup, I deployed two pathfinder eldar rangers, got within the 'reliable' stealthfield bubble & pinnined/broke two squads & managed to scatter a fireprism unfocoused shot onto them from a fire-warrior squad, again destroying it.

So yeah, if you are going to field a couple extra single ML options, I'd say field atleast three (aswell as pathfinders) so that at the very least, two enemy units will get atleast a few ML hits on them. Otherwise single ML's will be underwhelming.