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So Here is an IG list i've put together out of random stuff around my house. So here goes.

HQ

CCS-165
3xMelta Guns, Fleet OfficerChimera

CCS-145
4xMelta Guns, Chimera

Elite

Battle Psyker Squad-165
Chimera

Troop

Infantry Platoon-560

PCS
3xFlamers, Heavy Flamer, Chimera w/HHF

Line Squad
GL, Autocannon, Chimera

Line Squad
GL, Autocannon, Chimera

HWS
3xAutocannon

HWS
3xAutocannon


Veteran Squad-155
3xMelta Guns, Chimera

Veteran Squad-155
3xMelta Guns, Chimera

Veteran Squad-170
3xPlasma Guns, Chimera

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Squadron-340
2xLeman Russ w/HHB, HB Sponsons

Leman Russ Squadron-345
2xDemolisher 1xLascannon

Leman Russ Squadron-360
2xEradicator w/HHB, HB Sponsons

2500pts exactly. Let me know what you guys think!

Great!!! 15 Vehicles. Exactly what I want to see in a game.

The HWS and SWS seem subpar, especially at high points. They get instant killed by str6 weapons and fail checks for orders 40% of the time. I'd drop all of that. I'd also drop the lascannon from the Demolisher squadron.

I'd give the Demolishers sponson Plasma Cannons and then if possible I'd upgrade the normal LRBT squadron to a pair of Executioners with PC sponsons. I have no clue if you have the points to do all of that just by dropping the HWS and SWS, but you probably don't. IMO you don't need 2 CCS, and 2 Meltaguns isn't enough to guarantee killshots against enemy armor. 3 meltaguns at BS4 averages a dead tank of any AV, so I would defintiely go for at least 3 meltas in each CCS. Personally I'd drop a CCS altogether to find points for upgrading the Russes if need be though. I'd also get an Officer of the Fleet for one of the CCSs so when you have to deal with DS heavy armies you can fight less of their army at a time/deal with less DS melta love at a time. Ideally I think you want an IQ with 2 Mystics in a Valk/Detta to deal with this stuff though.

Im with Caffran9 on all but one point, I would suggest maxing out your meltas on your CCS rather than pullling them. My 4x Melta CCS are THE core of my army.

Personally I'd pull one of the CCS for an allied Inq lord with mystics & a psychic hood.

Also, do you really like the Nova cannon that much? To me it doesn't seem that great.

Wow...vehicle spam anybody?

It's good but 1 minor point is that you (until the meltas are in range) don't really have that much long-range AT, i'd upgrade a HWT to LCs instead of ACs.

Caffran9 wrote:The HWS and SWS seem subpar, especially at high points. They get instant killed by str6 weapons and fail checks for orders 40% of the time. I'd drop all of that. I'd also drop the lascannon from the Demolisher squadron.

I'd give the Demolishers sponson Plasma Cannons and then if possible I'd upgrade the normal LRBT squadron to a pair of Executioners with PC sponsons. I have no clue if you have the points to do all of that just by dropping the HWS and SWS, but you probably don't. IMO you don't need 2 CCS, and 2 Meltaguns isn't enough to guarantee killshots against enemy armor. 3 meltaguns at BS4 averages a dead tank of any AV, so I would defintiely go for at least 3 meltas in each CCS. Personally I'd drop a CCS altogether to find points for upgrading the Russes if need be though. I'd also get an Officer of the Fleet for one of the CCSs so when you have to deal with DS heavy armies you can fight less of their army at a time/deal with less DS melta love at a time. Ideally I think you want an IQ with 2 Mystics in a Valk/Detta to deal with this stuff though.

The HWS's will actually be riding in the Infantry squads chimera's. They have the fire points to allow me to shoot and will keep the heavy weapons safe. The Autocannons can then help w/long range anti-transport killing. Which this army needs. I might be tempted to drop the SWS but i'm going to test it out first. As for the two CCS's w/2 melta's each will be running with one of the 3 meltagun veteran squads. The 5 melta guns should be enough to take down most tanks or big bugs. Especially if they exit the vehicles and are twin linked.

As for the Executioners i'm not going to spend as much for a landraider for the plasma cannons. I have a fair amount of low ap firepower and don't feel like it would add a great amount to my army. Also with the prevalence of cover in most of the local shops that are running ard boyz there will be a lot of cover saves.

The officer of the fleet definitely has merit and i'll find the 30pts for him.

As for the nova cannons I find them to be superb at taking out things like scouts (sm/eldar), thunderfire cannons, lootas, and other units that would normally not have to worry.

Great feedback guys.

I agree with these guys for the most part. Seeing an inquisitor with Mystics would beef this up a ton. Also, make use of the PBS and get a Callidus assassin with the inquisitor and you can toast Nob Bikerz.

Heres just a lot of different suggestions I thought of :

I would make all your Chimeras ML/HF.

I would drop the HWS due to killpoint issues.

I would think about dropping the infantry squad and replacing it with Devildogs in the Fast Attack section.

SWS --> Vets.

That last plasma vet squad, I would run them melta like the rest or flamers. Plasma is just a liability imo and it just isn't that great :/.

For your heavy support I would:

Swap the Demolisher LR's for Medusas w/Hull HF.

Drop all the upgrades on the LR's for extra points for those Devildogs etc.

5 meltas sure, but if it was 6 meltas you could reliably split open a tank with each unit. 1 for 1 is ideal when possible without spending piles of points, and an extra 10pts to make that happen seems worth it to me.

I see your point on the Execs, and that is fine. I've been amazed by the brutal firepower of my PC sponson Execs so far, they are far and away the top damage dealers of my army. A pair of them in a squadron is probably excessive though (10 plasma cannons at one target is certainly overkill).

I like the Eradicators a lot, especially in such high point games where the opposing army is basically going to grant itself cover constantly.

double post :(

@Caffran9

I'll see what I can do about adding a 3rd melta. You've got a good point as far as cracking 2 seperate vehicles if need be. In smaller games i'd be all for Execs oddly. Where the enemy losing a squad hurts more the Execs are just nasty.

@Ezekk

Nob Bikerz at this level are more of a liability than asset. Every army has so many more things to deal with them it's not even funny. My PBS will be enough to make them scamper.

As for a Medusa's for Demolisher's it's just not my play style. I like to move forward and not worry about easy points in the back field. To many armies have quick'n'nasty ways of taking out things like that.

The more assaulty Chimera has a heavy flamer but i'm keeping the heavy bolter for those times where it's not so bad to sit still for an extra turn. And while different Hellhounds would be nice I have to say in this case i'd rather have the extra scoring units. IG are very, very fragile and at this point level I feel like i'm going to need as many as I can get.

My HWS will be in a Chimera and i'll blob up the line squads in KP's so that will help. I need the extra st7 shots at range to stop rhinos and such. My SWS will probably be replaced before the tourney but I have to try them at least once.

That last plasma vet squad, I would run them melta like the rest or flamers. Plasma is just a liability imo and it just isn't that great :/.

My experience has been quite the opposite. In my most recent tournament I ran a single plasma vet squad and it repeatedly proved itself and in 4 of 5 games killed double its points value of more. You are going to see tons of terminators in an Ard Boyz environment and the ability to pop the land raider with the meltas then fry the terminators with the Plasmas is a very very nice one two punch

bigtmac68 wrote:

That last plasma vet squad, I would run them melta like the rest or flamers. Plasma is just a liability imo and it just isn't that great :/.

My experience has been quite the opposite. In my most recent tournament I ran a single plasma vet squad and it repeatedly proved itself and in 4 of 5 games killed double its points value of more. You are going to see tons of terminators in an Ard Boyz environment and the ability to pop the land raider with the meltas then fry the terminators with the Plasmas is a very very nice one two punch

I Second this. It's very satisfying to destroy a LRC and then mow down the Termie Squad inside

I agree with bigmac68 on the Plasmas, they're great on BS4 Guardsmen. Flamers not so much because by taking vets you're paying for the BS4 stat so you should seek to utilize it (especially since it doesn't show up often for IG units lol). Rapid firing BS4 plasmas does damage, and if there is a BiD order to go with it, you've just put icing on the cake.

I'm glad most people seem to like the list. Just as a heads up I've dropped the SWS in favor of a Fleet Officer and 3 more melta's I've also upgraded one of the standard flamers in the PCS to a heavy flamer. Just seemed more fun!

Correct me if i'm wrong but rather than taking up a HQ slot with a IQ couldnt you just take the elite one with mystics for a measly 32 pts of awesome?

And for the record, (and the dogpile) You are out of your mind if you think plasma guns on vets is a waste. They perform exactly like a SM except they are slightly worse at recovering from the overheating, but that is totally blown away by the fact they are half the points of a SM AND can get some orders thrown their way to make it deeeeeeelicious!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The HF seems highly out of place to me. I already don't like them because of their points cost but in a squad that already has 3 normal flamers just has me asking "why?"

I do believe the final piece to your puzzle may be looking at your HS options a bit closer.

Though I can totally understand wanting 6 monsters of steel running around, I just think there are better layouts for them.

The heavy flamer is just cause I had 5 extra points laying around to be honest and 1 more st on a few more hits seems worth it. As for my HS I like the actual tanks themselves. The actual armament is kinda limited by what I have in the way of hulls and sponsons so I think they are about as good as they are going to get. Though if I could find 40 points I could upgrade a demolisher to have plasma sponsons.

Hulksmash wrote:
As for a Medusa's for Demolisher's it's just not my play style. I like to move forward and not worry about easy points in the back field. To many armies have quick'n'nasty ways of taking out things like that.

Uhm right...and a demolisher wading into the middle of the battlefield-exposing the side armour, where melta guns are going to be and any combat troops can assault you, is safer than an armour 12 tank at the back of the board? I'd expect to see 10 bazillion melta weapons at the ardboyz making armour 14 spam not as great as you think =P.

AV 13 side armor is plenty strong enough for me. Add in the other advancing tanks and it won't be easy to take advantage of that side armor.

Armor 12 at the back of the board is still easier to kill than armor 14 12" into the board. How many outflanking/speeder/deep striking/scouting units are there out there? Add in that it is open topped and it dies on a 2+ to any melta weapons (assuming I take a squadron of 2).

Yes there will be a bazillion melta weapons at Ard Boyz but they'll be limited to the number of total units. For instance my list has 4 Melta gun squads. 13 Melta's but only 4 possible vehicles I can take out. Some armies can get a little bit more but there isn't a reliable way to take out that much armor in job lots. And almost everything will have to spend at least 1 turn in range of all my weapons before they get to shoot those meltas. Further reducing the chance of them being effective. Though the same can be said for mine

An INQ with mystics does help alot vs speeders/deep striking units and outflankers will hurt any tank. 15 points for armoured crew compartment still saves 15 points per tank compared to the russ and gives an extra 12" range.

If you dont like playing with medusas thats fine, but I'm not a fan of leman russ demolishers anymore after quite a lot of testing, its far too easy to get out of range of a 24" gun. If they are used as literal suicide tanks to draw fire from the rest of your army then I guess thats alright, though I then recommend dropping the lascannons. They will die every game though, trust me =P.

4 possible vehicles? Thats not quite the case since 1/2 your tanks are in squadrons. Say 3 melta guns shoot at a squad of 2 leman russes all they need is a 3+ on each to blow them up because the hits are at the same time.

I think your list overall is quite decent apart from the heavy weapon squads (though they are cheap as hell so who cares if they die). The only worrying thing is the lack of fast vehicles or valks to contest or help capture objectives late in the game. If an opponent focuses fire on the chimeras you may struggle to get to grips with him or the objective.

Hulksmash wrote:
Leman Russ Squadron-340
2xLeman Russ w/HHB, HB Sponsons

Should become;

2x Leman Russ Vanquishers + hull lascannons @ 340pts.

That will fill in the mighty gap you have with dealing with long-ranged armor. Autocannons do not cut it & vs things like prisms, they wont actually reach! It also allows the demolishers to go after heavy infantry units. I know its only bs3 but when you point at a vehicle, with the above, it will die & it will die @ range, with the potentail to hit squadrened vehicles & do good damage. You got 2+ wounding pie elsewhere so its (A LRBT) not nessicary from that standpoint.

Demolishers with cammo netting sitting 12' from your table edge in the center of the board become huge fire magnets, which is good.

Your opponent must deal with them otherwise they cannot advance, and you are ignoring half the firepower directed at them.

I prefer them to Eradicators, which are outperformed by backfield artillery.

bigtmac68 wrote:

That last plasma vet squad, I would run them melta like the rest or flamers. Plasma is just a liability imo and it just isn't that great :/.

My experience has been quite the opposite. In my most recent tournament I ran a single plasma vet squad and it repeatedly proved itself and in 4 of 5 games killed double its points value of more. You are going to see tons of terminators in an Ard Boyz environment and the ability to pop the land raider with the meltas then fry the terminators with the Plasmas is a very very nice one two punch

Are plasma vets that much more effective vsd. assault terminators? That's what is coming out of the LRC when the melts smoke them right? The only non-assault termies you should ever see are Templar Termies because they can still have 2 assault cannons in a 5-man squad with tank hunter. (oh my heart be still)

3 plasmagun vets, rapid firing, kill 1 assault terminator on average. Plasmagun vets are there to chase away MC's. They do that well, but not assault terminators. Assault terminators need to roll a lot of dice to die. You have to hope the rolls go in your favor and the more rolls you make them take the better the chance they fail. You won't have all game to do it either.

Your biggest fear should be 10 Templar assault terminators on foot with a chaplain and cenobite servitors. These guys will get across the table very fast and will begin to multi-charge vehicles all over the place. What have you got to deal with them?