Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

REVISED:

HQ: (330)
-Daemon Prince (175)
w/ Wings, MoN, Warptime
-Chaos Lord (155)
w/ Terminator Gear, MoK, Daemon Weapon


Elites: (480)
-4x Terminators (480)
w/ 4x Champions, 3x Dual LC, 1x HF+CF, Khorne Icon, Dedicated LR(w/ D.Poss)


Troops: (1229)
-8x Berzerkers (243)
w/ Rhino, SC(w/ PF)
-8x Berzerkers (243)
w/ Rhino, SC(w/ PF)
-8x Berzerkers (243)
w/ Rhino, SC(w/ PF)
-10x Plague Marines (290)
w/ 2x Meltas, PC(w/ PF)
-10x Vanilla Marines (210)
w/ 2x Meltas, AC(w/ PF)

Heavy Support: (450)
-2x Obliterators (150)
-2x Obliterators (150)
-2x Obliterators (150)

Grand Total: 2489

The idea is pretty much a no brainer. Everything just moves forward. The Termie Lord will be placed inside the LR with the squad of 4x Termies.

Aside from that, the strategy is plain and simple. The PM and 'nilla CSM will do the primary job of tank hunting, and then sit on objectives. The Obliterators will also do alot of tank hunting. Everything else will tie up the enemy's squads.

All criticism is welcomed.

I would drop one term squad. Imo you need some long range firepower and some close range meltas to pop lrs, oblits give you all of that and options are what you need for a torny like ard boys.. all those zerkers will give you plenty of combat. Consider dropping the terms for some oblits. Also why are you taking defilers...you can take a cc dred for much cheaper and if you give it extra armor it will always be able to move unless its legs are blown off. Finally I would get some champs in those zerker squads...ask any ork player. Volume of atks wont win you combats alone... you need some p weps or p fists in there.

CSM Dreads are Crazed. Defilers are not.
Plus, Defilers have a sort of intimidation factor.

ifyouseekamy wrote:CSM Dreads are Crazed. Defilers are not.
Plus, Defilers have a sort of intimidation factor.

Crazed does not matter if your guns are a stormbolter and a heavy flamer..... Also I would not count on an intimidation factor, everyone is different so it might not work vs your opponents. If anything dreds would be better cause your opponent would never shoot them cause most people think csm dreds suck.

Defilers may be "intimidating" but they are bigger and just as easy to take down as a dread. Truthfully, if you position your dreads correctly, they shouldn't have to worry about fire frenzy and they could bring along Multi-Meltas and put some serious hurt out.

But CSM Dreads do suck... I would definitely go with the defiler instead.

Defilers shoot one thing, where as two Oblitz can shoot two things for the same points. They're also less likely to die unless held all the way back (that 72" is beautiful in table quarters). Assault will not win you a game. Assault +shooting will. It simply takes both, and a list like this won't win. You'll have to dismount to do anything, and then your transport might as well scream free KP. Chaos Lords also suck because they insta-die. Don't use one. He will end up killing himself (along with some of the enemy granted). If you're going to run something Chaos Lordish, just run Kharn because of the 2d6 armor and the not killing himself (just others). Your list severely lacks bodies. Read the article at the end of my sig and you may get inspired (or you may think it's crap, but either way it might open your mind some). remember that this codex was written expecting your to mix and match chaos gods and you only gimp yourself by not.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Defilers shoot one thing, where as two Oblitz can shoot two things for the same points. They're also less likely to die unless held all the way back (that 72" is beautiful in table quarters). Assault will not win you a game. Assault +shooting will. It simply takes both, and a list like this won't win. You'll have to dismount to do anything, and then your transport might as well scream free KP. Chaos Lords also suck because they insta-die. Don't use one. He will end up killing himself (along with some of the enemy granted). If you're going to run something Chaos Lordish, just run Kharn because of the 2d6 armor and the not killing himself (just others). Your list severely lacks bodies. Read the article at the end of my sig and you may get inspired (or you may think it's crap, but either way it might open your mind some). remember that this codex was written expecting your to mix and match chaos gods and you only gimp yourself by not.

3 special weapon csm squads is really nice

ifyouseekamy wrote:CSM Dreads are Crazed. Defilers are not.
Plus, Defilers have a sort of intimidation factor.

Ah yes the intimidation factor that comes from being an oversized, overpriced, autocannon magnet.

You dont have any way to deal with tanks at range. Since your land raiders will be zipping about carrying your terminators all over the place you'll need something extra to kill tanks before the third turn if you're lucky. You cant use them effectively as tansports and as anti-tank, and since your terminators are useless at range you should be using them as transports. Replacing the defilers with oblits would help a lot, but you would still have problems that I dont think your single chainfist can solve.

You are vulnerable to getting pre-emptively charged when your berzerkers get out of their transports. You may want to replace a couple of the berzerker squads with squads with a little more ranged power so that you can soften them up a bit before they charge you.

I still dont think lords are worth tanking over DPs or sorcerers, especially khorned marked ones with demon weapons. 1/3 chance to deal yourself a wound and do no damage in combat is a worse deal than CSM dreads. If you want a demon weapon then leave him unmarked, +1S +d6A is the best that you can get with a lord.

Your terminators cry if they end up in combat with wraithlords or a dread so i would at least give the other squad a chainfist/heavy flamer.

I can see what you're trying to do, but mech khorne (the non-LR spam version) get really hurt by not being able to assault out of transports. They are safest in combat and being out in the open leaves them very vulnerable. It is worth countering this by adding some more ranged elements to deal with opposing ranged elements (lootas are particularly nasty for berzerkers that arent in combat). Two battlecannon isn't really enough, especially not at BS3. Four plasma cannon at BS4 is much much better.

Krootman wrote:3 special weapon csm squads are really nice

Exactly.

So, switch out the Defilers for 2x2 Oblit Squads, take out the 5-strong terminator squad and put in some Skull Champs with Pow Fists, and possibly add in a PM squad, to sit on possible objectives.

But don't Oblits HAVE to DS, or are you able to place them on the board first turn? I don't really do much DS'ing with my current IG army, so haven't looked much into the rules for it...

And I'm wanting to keep the termie lord, because I'm confident in not rolling 1's (knock on wood) and 10-14 average attacks on the charge, that don't give saves can severely hinder a single squad by himself..

Let them move up the board from the back. They have slow and purposeful so no worries about shooting heavies. They start in Lascannon range and end up in Multi-melta range.

ifyouseekamy wrote:So, switch out the Defilers for 2x2 Oblit Squads, take out the 5-strong terminator squad and put in some Skull Champs with Pow Fists, and possibly add in a PM squad, to sit on possible objectives.

But don't Oblits HAVE to DS, or are you able to place them on the board first turn? I don't really do much DS'ing with my current IG army, so haven't looked much into the rules for it...

And I'm wanting to keep the termie lord, because I'm confident in not rolling 1's (knock on wood) and 10-14 average attacks on the charge, that don't give saves can severely hinder a single squad by himself..

No oblits dont have to DS. They're in terminator armour so they have the option but its not a requirement. Honestly its only in very rare occations that you will want your oblits to DS.

Its true the lord can do a lot of damage by himself, but if you are attaching him to the terminator squads then it may be a bit of over kill. Your terminators already have 6 attacks that reroll wounds and ignore armour on the charge each. That will get rid of most squads by themselves and even give MCs some trouble.

Other than that the changes look good.

ok, so say we ditch the termie lord and swap out for another Wing MoN Prince with Warptime, and then drop the 4x termies and their LR, replace the Defilers with Oblits as mentioned, add in a LR as a HS choice, put Daemonic Possession on the raiders, drop the zerker squads back to 8, add in a champ with pow fist to each squad, and possibly drop one zerker squad for a 'nilla squad with spec weps

I'd go two CSM squads with 2x meltas and fist. There will be a lot of armor.

I'll get to work on revisions after I get off from work. Please keep posting comments and other revisions I should look at though

Ever consider lash sorcs with wings? Hide them in a rhino and use him to lash stuff when it gets close. Will survive longer then a dp will..... Also I really think you need to invest in 3 special weapon csm squads they are really really mean and nasty in both shooting and combat.

Krootman wrote:Ever consider lash sorcs with wings? Hide them in a rhino and use him to lash stuff when it gets close. Will survive longer then a dp will..... Also I really think you need to invest in 3 special weapon csm squads they are really really mean and nasty in both shooting and combat.

The sorcerer may survive, but the unit he is in will draw more fire and probably die sooner, with isnt preferable. Lash is a support power, it cant do any killing on its own. So while it is desireable to keep the lash carrier alive, it isnt at the expense of an offensive unit. A sorcerer will also cause far less damage than a prince will, for only a measely 10pts less. In nearly all cases it is better to have a prince than a sorcerer when playing CSM.

Regwon wrote:In nearly all cases it is better to have a prince than a sorcerer when playing CSM.

In every instance that I've run a Lash Prince, it dies 1-2 turns sooner than the Sorc. On top of that, DPs just don't cause enough damage to justify their big akwardness (short of Warptime). I'd at least rather give the Lasher a fighting chance of surviving and have a squad with supporting firepower etc. to back it up. Either way, the squad can do more damage than a Lash Prince can dream of. The option to detach and run with another squad is good too. All that to say, Lashing out of a Rhino is the best things you will ever do.

List on the first post has been revised to take heed of the majority of advice

And also, I know the Lash Prince/Sorc is pretty BAMF'in, but I don't really like to sink to slight-cookie-cutter levels... Just a couple days ago, I saw my CSM friend field a Lash Sorc and he didn't even get to use lash once.

Lash is by no means the auto-win people say it is. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about it so much. I think it might have to do with you making a decision for them more than anything.

Regwon wrote:

Krootman wrote:Ever consider lash sorcs with wings? Hide them in a rhino and use him to lash stuff when it gets close. Will survive longer then a dp will..... Also I really think you need to invest in 3 special weapon csm squads they are really really mean and nasty in both shooting and combat.

The sorcerer may survive, but the unit he is in will draw more fire and probably die sooner, with isnt preferable. Lash is a support power, it cant do any killing on its own. So while it is desireable to keep the lash carrier alive, it isnt at the expense of an offensive unit. A sorcerer will also cause far less damage than a prince will, for only a measely 10pts less. In nearly all cases it is better to have a prince than a sorcerer when playing CSM.

I think that will change with this years expected metagame. MCs are just nor very scary any more, IG just shrugs and vaporizes them. Lootaz in Wagons, Jet Council, Mech Tau all of them will have so much MC killing power at this point level that a Prince is going to just be a free KP in most games.

Vendettas especially find them tasty due to the elevated firing position and long range.