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Working on a tournament list. Any comments? Miscounts (this is from memory)?

Farseer 125
Doom, Guide, Stones, Ghosthelm, Rune Armour, Witchblade, Runes Of Warding

6 Fire Dragons incl/ Exarch 113
5x Fusion Guns, Crack Shot, Dragon's Breath Flamer

5 Fire Dragons 80
5x Fusion Guns

10 Dire Avengers incl/ Exarch 152
9x Avenger Catapults, Bladestorm, Exarch Extra Catapult
Wave Serpent; linked shuriken cannons,linked catapults, WS Field 100

10 Dire Avengers incl/ Exarch 152
9x Avenger Catapults, Bladestorm, Exarch Extra Catapult
Wave Serpent; linked shuriken cannons,linked catapults, WS Field 100

10 Dire Avengers incl/ Exarch 157
9x Avenger Catapults, Bladestorm, Diresword
Wave Serpent; linked brightlances, linked catapults, WS Field 130

3 Vyper Jetbike Squadron 210
3x: Starcannon, Linked Shuriken Catapults

Falcon Grav-Tank: Eldar Missile Launcher, Pulse Laser, Holofields, Linked Shuriken Catapults 170

Falcon Grav-Tank: Brightlance, Pulse Laser, Linked Shuriken Catapults 145

Fire Prism; Prism Cannon, Linked Shuriken Catapults 115





1749

Edit: Undercosted second falcon, amended and took SS off 3rd WS.

No Eldrad?

That would be most certainly 'unfriendly' - I say No to Eldrad, and no amount of peer pressure will change my mind.
edit: Plus pretty much all tournaments in oz use comp. I'm spamming hard enough as it is.

Plus I'd have to drop a bit more than a holofield to fit him in. On that note, any opinions on dropping the Falcon holofields and taking up Spirit Stones on the other two Wave Serpents, plus runes of witnessing for the seer? Can fit a singing spear for the seer in too that way, although I wouldn't mind the additional CCW of witchblade... ehhh miscounted falcon, BL costs 10 points more... took off stones, but I can still scrap holos for stones all over the Serpents.

I use dire avengers in the same units, and they're great. Only a couple things that stand out for me. One, I prefer wave serpents to falcons, they provide cheaper protection, on the other hand the falcons do put out firepower. By taking out both falcons, you could take two cheap serpents and a naked fire prism. Not saying thats a necessary step, but it might be more effective - more tank hulls is better IMO. Two, I don't rate starcannons on vypers. If you fielded scatter lasers and shuricannons on each vyper, they'd cost the same and be more effective against anything but terminators/meganobz in the open. Hope that helps.

im not totally sure that a single fire prism is worth it, usually they are ran in twos. Also I think spirit stones on wave serpents are a must, if the wave serpents take a hit you want to guarantee unless you get immobilised that you can keep moving next turn.

take runes of witnessing on your farseer, it lowers you chance of failure from eight percent to less than two percent. thats a pretty big difference. id cut the dragons breath flamer and crack shot from the fire dragons, just use an ordinary fusion gun. Possibly consider taking tank hunters.


Im not a fan of vypers, they're squishy and only ballistic skill 3, so they wont kill much. I'd cut them. use the points free'd up to take holofields on both falcons and fire prism, and make sure you get spirit stones on everything.

Firepower is what I need, because the ability to assault I do not have. I am still keen on the vypers, and will hopefully get in a few practice games with this list soon. The thing is, it gives me a scary amount of AP 2 overall, and I'm expecting a few hard command squads, characters and sternguard to contend with. Plus I already make gravy out of terminators with a dual falcon strike (for some reason they always teleport into the middle of my army, where I can just dive in with everything I need to kill them), and those starcannons can only help. I would much rather have two basic Wraithlords, but I don't have the Wave Serpents to swap out for Falcons.

You see, for a while I've been doing well with basically this list, another farseer and no vypers. Admittedly this is all the Eldar I've collected since I started about seven months ago. Even if they get shot down they're just a single killpoint, and if I continue to use this army efficiently then I think that the average 3x AP2 hits will pay off in effect. The second Farseer felt redundant - but I agree that I need to find points for ROWit. I took the DBF+CS off one FD squad for redundancy already...

If I take the vypers down to dual cannons I free up 30 points for WS stones, but reduce their range to a rather liable 24". Hmm...

Someone else is taking triple prism, so I'm just trying to out-vehicle him.

I would drop the Vipers in favor of having all your Waveserpents being TLBL. I wouldn't bother with the holofields tbh. It actually has a greater chance of killing your vehicle I think but that may be wrong. I would run the EML falcon scatterlaser tbh, but thats just preference. The Fireprism needs a shuriken cannon, he has BS4 use it!

Scatterlaser doesn't pin or count as a defensive weapon. Single prism sits in corner, cooking pie and sometimes inspiring opponents to half-attempt a flank manueuvre after it, that only weakens his overall line.

TLBL is only one shot, and I said needed firepower! I used to have scatters on the Avenger serpent with diresword, but cashed in on a single TLBL instead. You have holofields confused with runes, methinks.

3 Bladestorm squads seems like a lot of firepower =o. Yeah I might with the holofields. How well have the starcannons worked for you, they seemed ok but worth the points this editon?

EzeKK wrote:I would drop the Vipers in favor of having all your Waveserpents being TLBL. I wouldn't bother with the holofields tbh. It actually has a greater chance of killing your vehicle I think but that may be wrong. I would run the EML falcon scatterlaser tbh, but thats just preference. The Fireprism needs a shuriken cannon, he has BS4 use it!

How the heck can holofields increase the chance of killing your vehicle. you make the opponent roll twice and pick the lowest. its not even like Runes of Witnessing were it lowers chance of failing from 8percent to 2 whilst increasing perils of the warp from 1.4 percent to 1.9.

I'd take out the prism and take a squad of dark reapers,
yeah they can't move and shoot at the same time, but their range and firepower are pretty nasty, even with their low squad count.
Hell, I'd go with a full squad, with exarch, EML and fast shot. You'll get a whole messload of shots and manage to take out anything but terminators and meganobs at an incredibly long range.
also I'd trade out the dire sword with an extra catapult, you'll most likely want the extra shots with bladestorm.

LordPagus wrote:I'd take out the prism and take a squad of dark reapers,
yeah they can't move and shoot at the same time, but their range and firepower are pretty nasty, even with their low squad count.
Hell, I'd go with a full squad, with exarch, EML and fast shot. You'll get a whole messload of shots and manage to take out anything but terminators and meganobs at an incredibly long range.
also I'd trade out the dire sword with an extra catapult, you'll most likely want the extra shots with bladestorm.

im currently fielding Dark Reapers, a full squad set up as you describe and im actually in the process of moving them out. they havnt performed too well, competently but not fantastic.

I know you said that you dont have two serpents to switch out for the falcons, but thats exactly what would help you the most. Look to add a couple more serpents, give them stones and twin linked BL and you still end up with a few extra points.

With the spare points give your farseer runes of witnessing or else stick stones onto a few more serpents.

With two more heavy slots you could also then drop the vypers and add in two more naked prisms. Or drop the vypers and add a unit of war walkers.

If you stay with vypers, consider giving them EMLs. They have a bit more range so they can stay farther away, plus the blast option works well against hordes. And they are fast enough to get flank shots on armor at times.

Falcons are not too strong in 5th for their points, and while vypers have some uses they arent top of the line either.


Sliggoth

falcons only really become a viable option if they have holofields, if you dont then wave serpents are more survivable because of energy shield. Plus the falcons armament suffers because of BS 3.

Wave Serpents are cheaper and dont take up heavy slots, allowing you too possibly trim some points and take a second fire prism

actually with this list, that would make sense.
I'm getting the sense that this list isn't so much about firepower as it is about outflanking the opponent, though it could do both with this list.

kinda makes me want to go out and get more wave serpents.

Stones are essential for the Serpents, since they carry scoring units and Serpents in cc can be taken down with ease.

I'd replace the Falcons with Serpents, and give them shuricannons. While the Serpents carrying the DA units could get bright lances.
The reason is that the DA-Serpents should be operated more defensely, while the FD-Serpents need to approach the enemy to unleash the payload (FDs).

The primary strength of Mech Eldar is mobility - with only forty-odd wounds at my disposal, it's worth saying more than once by investing in spirit stones. I don't have the Wave Serpents, nor the additional Fire Prisms to trade out for the Falcons. As it stands I'll run dual-cannon vypers to get my stones on, and remain confident that I was able to win with this list minus the vypers.

The total of nine fast vehicles will be great fun - I can pretty much force a draw in most objective games, because skimmer lists are just so bloody hard to table. It's really worth going second most of the time, and in Dawn of War it's often a great advantage to remain completely off-table (although depending on what you're trying to counter, sticking your troops in hard might be the go).

More wave serpents will be a later addition to the force.

one suggestion on the vypers. Since you seem keen on taking them, how about giving them EMLS and shuriken cannons instead? That way you can keep them 36" away from everything and fire the EML with plasma missiles and the cannon when moving over 6" since the STR 4 EML is a defensive weapon or you can use them in an anti mech roll.

Edit: they only cost 15 points more overall for the squadron.

A good idea - certainly occured to me, but I'm still scraping points for Stones. Even thinking of scrapping runes. What I did decide to give a go today was Scatter+SCannon on the vypers, for a potential 21 S6 shots at 36". Same cost as Starcannons, which I've rediscovered to be as inefficient as ever since 5th. Much better than 6 shots either way, and will help me to thoroughly splatter those bike/mc armies I'm expecting. Even a lone vyper in that config could handle transports and valkyries pretty confidently.