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I've been playing against a lot of IG 'Ard Boyz lists at my FLGS. It appears that the lists I've played against are vulnerable to classic boyz and loota spam list. It seems that much of the IG lists have great anti-vehicle but for whatever reason these players don't seem too strong on anti-horde.

And they have such loverly weapons like Eradictors & Dual Multiple-rocket-pod valkyries!

I think people may think they can rely on thier chimera HHB & ML's and thier infantry lasguns when really all that will be insuffecient.

Razerous wrote:And they have such loverly weapons like Eradictors & Dual Multiple-rocket-pod valkyries!

I think people may think they can rely on thier chimera HHB & ML's and thier infantry lasguns when really all that will be insuffecient.

I played against one guy who had what seemed like a dozen chimera--loads anyways--he was shooting out of the firepoints with his special weapons. I told him, jeeezus it's a good thing I don't have six battlewagons. Seriously--there are some IG lists I've seen that have the ability to kill all vehicles on the table by T2 it seems. Yet they leave themselves terribly vulnerable in other ways.

Hmm, I think this comes down to the composition of the lists you're playing against more than anything. I've not had a problem with Loota Spam or horde orks with my IG list. To be honest my biggest issue is long range AT fire, I have all the rest of my bases covered just fine.

I think there is so much cool stuff in the new IG book that it is really easy to load up on one thing and forget about another, thus creating some imbalance in the list's abilities.

What kind of IG armies are you playing against?

Yeah, it's why I took eradicators in my current Ard Boyz build. I wanted something that could hit and take out units that had a cover save. Those pesky eldar scouts or fortuned guardians, lootas or even normal boyz protected by a KFF, and marine scouts in buildings. I also made sure to have a few flamer units to ensure death to the masses

But having played guard for years it's never a good thing to rely on your chimera's to kill anything. You need to move them to much to ever get the full amount of shots from them.

If you're playing meh IG then you should have enough firepowe from chimerasr to deal with hordes as long as you remember to kill the lootas first. If you're playing footslogging IG then you'll need a little more. Exexutioners are good, but so are LRBTs with sponson heavy bolters. Valks with rocket pods are also good but can die quickly to loota fire.

Manticores firing indirectly or directly = your long range AT solved (until they get blown up of course).

Maybe not the best choice at 2500 though since you can have only 1 per heavy support choice, but they do work fantastically well at 1500 which I play =/.

Devil dogs are also a great 'long' range AT choice because they are fast and can get within that 12" zone of death to any tank fairly easily, and still pop lighter tanks from 36" away with str8 AP 1.

Regwon wrote:If you're playing meh IG then you should have enough firepowe from chimerasr to deal with hordes as long as you remember to kill the lootas first. If you're playing footslogging IG then you'll need a little more. Exexutioners are good, but so are LRBTs with sponson heavy bolters. Valks with rocket pods are also good but can die quickly to loota fire.

I find my Chimeras to be the smallest part of the equation unless things get in really close, where their hull heavy flamers shoulder the burden. My Russes inflict the major damage, followed by the Valkyrie/MRPs. I think if I traded all my Chimeras and vet squads for platoon with 4xflamer PCS and AC/GL squads I would have an even easier time against hordes. I've not tested that yet so I can't say for sure if that is even remotely correct, but it seems like a mountain more firepower coming fromthe platoons at that point.

Regwon wrote:If you're playing meh IG then you should have enough firepowe from chimerasr to deal with hordes as long as you remember to kill the lootas first. If you're playing footslogging IG then you'll need a little more. Exexutioners are good, but so are LRBTs with sponson heavy bolters. Valks with rocket pods are also good but can die quickly to loota fire..

Oh, this reminds me, if lootas were ever fielded against me, I'd make a big show of my AV14 (Oh wait, str7 cant even glance it, woo ) & keep my infantry/chimeras back/behind & outflank the good old trust MRP valkyrie.

MRP valks will just murder T4 6+ save lootas. Two str 4 ap 6 large blasts, 36" effective range from the board egde, are just designed to kill orks. So unless your horribly unlucky and scatter lots twice, the fire from those two blasts & the multi-laser should either mow down the squad entirely and/or cause it a morale check.

If cover was involved, then i'd use the other valkyrie, a vendettas, with a 4flamer PCS inside, flat-out onto the board from the table egde & basically do the same, template death them to death (probably dealing more damage).

Either unit can then deal with armor afterwards (oh as the MRP valk has melta vets inside).

Sorry, I just felt I had to correct this poor poor assumption. While loota & deffguns will down valkyries will, valkyries have a host of special rules & abilities (24" flat-out moves, outflank, extra armor etc) that just trump all that. Deffguns WILL merc chimeras though.

Orks are still using Lootas? In a vehicle I assume, otherwise how are you handling PBS?

IG are still using PBS?

i really like the standard Leman russ. pie plates decimate infantry and medium armor and for vehicle killyness the lascannon AND battle cannon should get you at least crew stunned. for super killy anti tank just outflank a vendetta with 3 TL lascannons against side/rear armor. make sure to screen tanks with infantry though.

Screen a Vendetta... the thing gaks like 6" up in the sky. There is no screening it, ever. lol

I'm a fan of the standard Russ too. I'm currently playing an Eradicator instead of one, but that is because I feel the anti-cover weapon is important. I'm still testing this so it may or may not really be worthwhile but so far I've been really happy with it.

Every single IG player should be spamming armor. I have been forgoing even taking armor 14 in an effort to take more armor 12. I have 13 tanks in my 1750. The last ard boys list i wrote up had 18.

Every armor 12 IG tank can and will have a heavy flamer. With 18 vehicle mounted heavy flamers, and just the basic fact that you are mechanized will easily handle hordes.

IG artillery can scale up to 2500 linearly, lootas are locked in at 45.

I think battlewagons are where its at for orks at 2500. If you are ok using some small nob units, then battlewagons can scale up to 2500. Foot orks are at their most effective at the 1500-1750 size in my opinion.

I've dropped my leman russes as well :/ which is a shame since the executioner is probably my favourite painted model right now.

Av 14 just isnt good enough vs melta/combat spam, the only way to beat it is sheer weight of numbers and heavy flamers. So either fast tanks who can get in and out or the more destructive medusas/manticores etc over the slow armour for me.

Just as an aside I have 11 tanks at 1500 and 13 I think at 1750 too =P. The psychological effect of having that much armour on the board really affects people, even very experienced players don't know what to do when they are staring down at so many.

I must be doing something wrong, I'm still fielding 3 av14 tanks and I have 12 vehicles at 1750 .

I like the av14 I feel it adds a lot of versatility. Plus under 1850 I see no reason to have to squadron anything. I do know that my 3 hs and my 3 fs are what gets filled up first tho!

I'm also not to the point where I want to drop my AV14, I still run 3 in my 1750.

Especially the nakid LRDemo, thing just draws so much more fire than it is worth.

I do love how the OP wants advice for his orks, and the majority of replies deal with how to play IG. Good going guys.

And you, the guy who dropped his AV 14 vehicles because he wasn't able to deal with melta: LULZ. The concept of IG going without AV 14 is in and of itself not ludicrous, as there could be interesting Arty builds, but doing so for that reason is rather stupid.

To the OP: As orks, you're going to have trouble with AV 14 anyway you cut it. Sorry, thats the truth. And any competently written IG list will look at your horde of foot boyz, ESPECIALLY at 2.5k, and grin savagely. Valks alone could slice such massive numbers off, it's not funny. If you have to play orks, go in something with wheels. Your call on how you achieve that.

I dont see how people cannot think IG will not win ardboyz; it scales so incredibly well to those levels and still leaves very few Kill points; 6 leman Russes Griffons etc...


Just brutal.

I'm still going to be running my AP 2 gunline. It fries marines, terminators, transports, and AV 14. The only armies I usually have problems with are hordes, but that's why I'm going to pick up some Hellhounds.

smreferee wrote:I do love how the OP wants advice for his orks, and the majority of replies deal with how to play IG. Good going guys.

And you, the guy who dropped his AV 14 vehicles because he wasn't able to deal with melta: LULZ. The concept of IG going without AV 14 is in and of itself not ludicrous, as there could be interesting Arty builds, but doing so for that reason is rather stupid.

To the OP: As orks, you're going to have trouble with AV 14 anyway you cut it. Sorry, thats the truth. And any competently written IG list will look at your horde of foot boyz, ESPECIALLY at 2.5k, and grin savagely. Valks alone could slice such massive numbers off, it's not funny. If you have to play orks, go in something with wheels. Your call on how you achieve that.

Who said anything about dropping av14 because of purely melta? The main reason is because:

1)Leman russes are very expensive if you load them out with sponsors and such. Even a basic leman russ with plasma cannon sponsors is nearly 200 points. Without sponsors their damage isn't superb, its pretty average. Only the executioner turret is actually quite destructive on its own, and guess what? Its 190 points.
2)The other destructive turret, the demolisher, is only a 24" range. It can be very difficult to keep this tank in range vs a competant general, either you move in close to lose the chance of the template scattering out of range and therefore wasting the shot and risk combat + melta, or you hover at ~20-24" and risk the scatter.

I just prefer the artillery section of the heavy support since they are generally either 1) more destructive, 2) cheaper so can spam more of them or 3) have a longer operating range than the leman russ variants. I love the glass cannon approach I guess?

As a disclaimer, I do play only 1500-1750 points so therefore for me getting enough tanks on the table means keeping them cheap, if you are playing 2500 then go ahead and load out with the russes with sponsors and what have you.

I'm pretty sure templates can scatter out of range without losing them. The only time you lose them is if you place it outside of its range before scattering.

And yet people keep talking about how they want to run their IG army. Read the subject, guys.

What exactly is the subject here? The OP just seems to be stating that guard armies he sees are weak vs. horde lists.

Steelmage99 wrote:And yet people keep talking about how they want to run their IG army. Read the subject, guys.

Did you read the OP? He's talking about IG, so please try to stay on topic.




Between HHFs, mutiple Pie plates, Hellhounds, and PBS, Ork hordes have not given me too much trouble as of yet. However, I still have not gone up against Battlewagon Orks...

BoxANT wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:And yet people keep talking about how they want to run their IG army. Read the subject, guys.

Did you read the OP? He's talking about IG, so please try to stay on topic.

Whoops. Wrong thread.