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I am in the beginning stages of painting a 10,000 point Black Templar army and was wondering if anybody has ever tried dipping black models? I am curious to see if it will have any affect and save me countless hours of painting.

Dipping them in black paint would probably leave the paint on them too thickly hiding some of the details. Using the spray paint would probably be a better idea as it's fast and won't have the chance of ruining the models by applying too much paint.

I think he means "dipping" as in using the wood stain dip method. On black, that wouldn't work well, because that dip darkens crevasses like a wash. With a black basecoat, you won't have any shading, and they'll just be a little brown and shiny. It works much better with light colors than with dark ones. Using a stain for the dip on all black models will look like crap imho, but do up a test model and see what you think of it.
An alternative is to paint the models black without any real shading, and spray them with a high gloss spray. This will make the light reflect off the raised areas naturally, but they will also be real shiny. I'd say just basecoat black and then add details and secondary colors sparingly with minimal highlights. Be conservative. Templars are pretty easy to get to get to tabletop quality with only three colors (black, white, red).

Okay well I thought that they would look like crap but I thought that I would at least ask around. I am just getting discouraged by the task. Also do you guys know another easy way to paint them fast? My army is at the very least table top quality level in the paint department maybe a little higher I will try to post some pics so you guys can get an idea. Any tips to faster painting would be well appreciated.

don't

dip

that

gak.

Dip is not the cure all for every army. If you want a faster way to paint, either get faster, or use washes. I cranked out a 23 models in like 10 hours (with highlighting) using just a black wash and some pretty basic colors. So use a wash, don't dip.

Excuse the n00bishness, but what's dipping? What I associate with it sounds a bit "crude".

SgtSixkilla wrote:Excuse the n00bishness, but what's dipping? What I associate with it sounds a bit "crude".

Don't worry about seeming n00bish. Until today I thought it meant dipping the model into paint
Scout mentioned about dipping them into wood stain. So by thinking about it I guess it means dipping them into some type of wash to quickly add a wash to the model?
Or am I still wrong?

Dipping is the practice of dipping the entire model into a pot (generally quite large) of stain, this is after the model has had the base colours applied and applies shading to the entire model.
It is useful for large horde armies, as it cuts out the need for individual washes and highlights.
It does cut some detail out though.

And to add to Goliaths previous post, dipping isnt for every army. It looks GREAT on nids, and pretty good on guard/Orks depending on how they are painted. I havnt really seem much on other armies, so I can tell you the few Ive seen on SM dont look very good. I did this to the terminator squad for my house SM. It looks not very good lol. So when I get to painting the rest of them, they are going to actually be painted

Adding to KingCracker's post,
Dipping can be used for large amounts of models with textured areas, such as fabric or skin (WFB empire troops, ork skin),
it doesn't work very well with flat areas of armour, such as power armour or Tau armour

Just take a colored grey pencil and edge your models with it if you want an alternative to highlighting. Dipping is great for stuff like Orks and (we'll see after tonight, I might post my results) Deathwing and IG even. But Black doesn't get colored, its black. (/gasp) So highlighting is the only real way to get contrast.

Not a fan of dipping myself but:

If you choose to dip then I recommend a black dip with medium grey paints. This will provide the shading you require. I do agree that dark grey and black washes will work better.

Also dip is not necessarily just stain. Dipping actually came into is popularity when people were using tinted floor waxes. The waxes tended to give flow to the fluid kinda like washes...but different.

You're just starting, and aiming for 10,000 points? Good luck sir!
Black paint does not dip well as washes do not show up on the dark armour. Realistically, the only way to do BT would be to leave any areas you want white off the model before you spray black, then spray those parts white and glue - add black detailing after for speed.

Dipping works great on any army, you just have to think logically about your color choices.

http://www.dysartes.com/model/painting/Dipping1.php

http://www.dysartes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2056&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If you are going to use a brown stain, you will greatly benefit from using bright, warm tones, such as reds, browns, yellows, oranges, tans and bleached bone. Grey and Silver can look good if you want a dirty, oily look and Gold looks great shaded with brown. White and black are terrible because white stains and black doesn't look like anything but black.

To help speed the painting along, spraying/priming the models in the same color you will paint them helps alot. For example, if painting blood angels, prime them red.

Don't listen to the haters, and try several test models before you settle on what you want to do.

If im not mistaken , dipping is a quick method to simulate shading and shadows.

But how do you do that effectively on black? when its already the darkest?

TobinRoss89 wrote:I am in the beginning stages of painting a 10,000 point Black Templar army and was wondering if anybody has ever tried dipping black models? I am curious to see if it will have any affect and save me countless hours of painting.

You could dip them with dark tone dip, but unless you have some lighter shade of black, you are not going to get any definition of shadow. If you do go that route, then you get "Dark Grey Templars", instead of the Black Templars....

Check out my dipping guide http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dipping_Tyranids. Dipping works great on Nids. Orks and Nurgle are okay too. Almost everything else, YMMV.

Mez

My friend and i just started dipping, and we tried some of our models, and he stuck one of his black templars in it, and it came out looking like a crap brown marine, the wood dip doesnt help the white at all, and black it just makes it shiny and whatever color the stain is, which will change the look depending on the stain, dont let this turn you off dipping though, i dipped all my nids in about two days , and they look fantastic.

If you want to dip them- it will take some experimenting.

First you'll have to find a suitable Ebony woodstain.

Second- you'll have to base coat with something other than black, a medium grey or possibly blue depending on your preference for shading.

From there you could try a few test models- see if the dip works with the colors you picked.

I dont think it would sit too well on white details though. so, a trick is to gently blow the stain off the areas you want lighter. The ghetto method for that is a soda straw. If you're better equipped- an airbrush used as a blower with about 5-10 psi.

It will take some time to find the right mix, but for a 10,000 army it might be worth it in the long run. Everyone is basically saying dipping is for horde armies- and I think 10,000 pts of SM qualifies as a horde

lighter shade of black

One thing to remember that you don't have to do black. There are red templars as well or make your own chapter that follows the templar rules.

I've dipped Space Wolves. They were spray-painted grey and dipped in black dip. It works, if you clean up the shoulder pads and backpack and helmets with a little thinner to help the stain run off the flat surfaces.

Now, I'd probably just use the GW washes.

You'd have to basecoat the models a dark, dark, grey, to get any contrast with the stain. I don't think it would work well. It would work on the tabards and metal areas, but the black power armor would be hard to accomplish. Black is usually highlighted vs. 'lowlighted' (which is what dipping does - fill in the low spots).

dietrich wrote:You'd have to basecoat the models a dark, dark, grey, to get any contrast with the stain. I don't think it would work well. It would work on the tabards and metal areas, but the black power armor would be hard to accomplish. Black is usually highlighted vs. 'lowlighted' (which is what dipping does - fill in the low spots).

Umm, if hes dipping them in something black- and should be using a lighter base coat- it automatically makes the highlights....thats the point of the technique....'lowlighting' as you call it is part of the shading process inks, washes, or dry brushing a lighter color over a dark are other ways to do it. And hes not wanting a usual method

Mistress of minis wrote:

dietrich wrote:You'd have to basecoat the models a dark, dark, grey, to get any contrast with the stain. I don't think it would work well. It would work on the tabards and metal areas, but the black power armor would be hard to accomplish. Black is usually highlighted vs. 'lowlighted' (which is what dipping does - fill in the low spots).

Umm, if hes dipping them in something black- and should be using a lighter base coat- it automatically makes the highlights....thats the point of the technique....'lowlighting' as you call it is part of the shading process inks, washes, or dry brushing a lighter color over a dark are other ways to do it. And hes not wanting a usual method

Dipping a model in stain will just cover the low spots - so about 10-25% of the model. If you go with a highlighting method, the highlights will cover about 10-25% of the surface area.

Do you want a model that is mostly a dark, dark, grey with about 10-25% of black or
Do you want a model that is mostly black with about 10-25% grey highlights?

Drybrushing is a highlighting method. Using washes or stain is a 'lowlighting' method. Either way, most of the basecoat will still be showing. If the OP wants to black power armor, I don't think dipping in black will give good results. You'll have a model that is mostly a dark grey with black recesses vs. a model that is mostly black with lighter highlights.

Dipping space wolves worked fine, because I wanted a grey armor for most of the model. The black in the recesses works well. I don't see it working for armor that is supposed to be black.

The way you keep putting 'lowlighting' in parentheses makes it appear to be a term you made up

If you darken the recesses- that makes highlights automatically if the said recessed areas are darker than the higher areas.

You're making up and extra term for the same end result acheived by different means ^_^

Here's a method that resembles dipping in black.

Start out with a white undercoat, and paint the mini using Black India Inks. Depending on how thin your ink is, it will leave more or less of the white showing, or you may have to do several coats, but overall it will give you a simple difference between your highlights and darker areas.

I haven't done this for many years, but when I did use this method, it ranked well in the time vs. results scale.

Paint them up dark grey , then dip in black magic wash,
give a quick shake to get rid of the exess. Bada Bing.

Magic Wash... http://www.paintingclinic.com/clinic/guestarticles/magicwash.htm

Mistress of minis wrote:The way you keep putting 'lowlighting' in parentheses makes it appear to be a term you made up

If you darken the recesses- that makes highlights automatically if the said recessed areas are darker than the higher areas.

You're making up and extra term for the same end result acheived by different means ^_^

The difference is in amount of coverage. If you're dipping the model, it's because that is the only highlighting/lowlighting that you're doing on the model. It's going to cover probably 10% of the basecoat. So, if you prime it dark grey and dip it in black stain, you're giong to have a dark grey model. If you basecoat it black and drybrush/paint on highlights, that are probably only going to cover 10-20% of the model, you're going to have a black model. If the OP wants Dark Grey Templars, dipping will work. If he wants Black Templars, I think he'll be disappointed.

And I'm differentiating highlight vs lowlight because of technique. Highlights put a lighter shade of paint on the high points of a model. Lowlighting puts a dark color in the low spots. It tries to do the same thing - create depth. But, it does it different ways. The important part, which you're ignoring - is that in either case, the basecoat is still the main color. Again, dipping SWs worked create, because they were primed grey and had the recesses shaded black. But, if I did the same technique with Black Templars, I'd have - Grey Templars. Not black, grey with black recesses.

Painting walnut minwax on the bone or white could work, but actually shading black with stain I don't think would work well. Even with a magic sauce or black wood stain over grey you'll end up with more grey then black -- which is what dietrich has been trying to say.

Sad to say but black is either really easy but lacks depth (paint black and done) or really hard and has some depth (unforgiving exercise in highlighting). At least in my experience.

Fishboy wrote:If you choose to dip then I recommend a black dip with medium grey paints.

THIS^^^^. I see many commenting on how black is the darkest and you can't dip it, TRUE. You have to reverse your highlight thinking and paint with a dark grey (a touch lighter than black, like 6:1 black grey.) and use a black dip to shade for you. You will get a more natural highlight. I use army painter quickshade because it's formulated for minis but there are many alternatives. The dip I use works better than washes because it's thick. While washes pick out the fine details the dip makes for a smoother transition. Great for minis with lots of texture but it CAN be used for everything as long as you test like stated.