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Hey, so I discovered the other day we were not totally playing Independent Character right and the rule book is kinda vague on the full rules.

When a IC assaults he must be in base to base contact to attack, right? But he can cause wounds to the whole unit? Or can he only cause wounds to characters within 2" of his base?

Because i know the opposing player can only cause wounds on the model within 2" of him but must declare if they are attacking the character or squad he is accompanying. I think the guy in base to base contact can only attack the IC as well.

Also, when a Walker is in close combat and scored more wounds than the squad he is fighting, can you break away? because I have always taken the rule of not having to take a morale check to mean that you are stuck there until it is destroyed.

This is more of a YMDC question but I'll bite.

In close combat the IC is treated as a seperate unit when determining who can fight. So...

When a IC assaults he must be in base to base contact to attack, right?

Yes

But he can cause wounds to the whole unit?

Yep. Just as if he was any other unit -- any wounds he causes must be allocated during the Initiative step that he attacks in. These can be allocated to anyone in the unit he directed his attacks against -- not just models in b2b or engaged with him.

Because i know the opposing player can only cause wounds on the model within 2" of him but must declare if they are attacking the character or squad he is accompanying.

Ok this is partially right and partially wrong.
--Any model in B2B with an enemy model from one unit must direct its attacks at that unit. So any model in that unit can be wounded.
--In the case of an IC, enemy models in B2B with the IC and only the IC can only attack and wound the IC. Wounds caused cannot be carried over into the squad he has joined (and vice versa).
--In 5ed the 2" is only used to determine who can fight, not who can be wounded. It used to be different in 4ed but in 5ed any model can be allocated a wound and with enough wounds may have to be allocated a wound. Please see the rules for wound allocation in the shooting section for full details.

I think the guy in base to base contact can only attack the IC as well.

If a model is in B2B with both the IC and some other model in another unit then he can allocate against either. But anytime you are B2B with a model in one unit, you must allocate at that unit (or IC).

Also, when a Walker is in close combat and scored more wounds than the squad he is fighting, can you break away? because I have always taken the rule of not having to take a morale check to mean that you are stuck there until it is destroyed.

If the walker wins combat then yes units fighting him can fail a leadership test and fall back -- assuming the unit that lost doesn't automatically pass morale checks (eg fearless, synapse, etc). However walkers do not test if they lose and do not suffer any ill effects for losing.

HTH and welcome to dakka.

This is on of the major changes that has happened in 5th edition combat works more like fantasy these days.

Your whole unit has to move up to 6" to get into btb contact with the character as per the assault rules. Then any model within 2" of the character get their attacks. And even by some freak chance only one model is in btb wounds can be allocated to any model as stated above.

My suggestion if you dont already have the 5th edition rule book get a hold of it and reread the whole rules section theres been multipul changes etc since 4th edition.

Other than that i hope it helps and welcome!

Oh, yeah no I bought the 5th Edition rule book when it was released, but I must have blanked out when I read the IC rules for close combat and only noticed them a few weeks ago (I havn't played too much the past few months) so I figured that the rules were the same, also it was rare before my friend started playing Space Marines a lot and I pulled out my old space marine army that this really came up in a game. Thanks a lot for the help.

The walker question was to quell a question my friend had asked me and couldn't rightly answer. =D

winterman wrote:This is more of a YMDC question but I'll bite.

In close combat the IC is treated as a seperate unit when determining who can fight. So...

When a IC assaults he must be in base to base contact to attack, right?

Yes

But he can cause wounds to the whole unit?

Yep. Just as if he was any other unit -- any wounds he causes must be allocated during the Initiative step that he attacks in. These can be allocated to anyone in the unit he directed his attacks against -- not just models in b2b or engaged with him.

Because i know the opposing player can only cause wounds on the model within 2" of him but must declare if they are attacking the character or squad he is accompanying.

Ok this is partially right and partially wrong.
--Any model in B2B with an enemy model from one unit must direct its attacks at that unit. So any model in that unit can be wounded.
--In the case of an IC, enemy models in B2B with the IC and only the IC can only attack and wound the IC. Wounds caused cannot be carried over into the squad he has joined (and vice versa).
--In 5ed the 2" is only used to determine who can fight, not who can be wounded. It used to be different in 4ed but in 5ed any model can be allocated a wound and with enough wounds may have to be allocated a wound. Please see the rules for wound allocation in the shooting section for full details.

I think the guy in base to base contact can only attack the IC as well.

If a model is in B2B with both the IC and some other model in another unit then he can allocate against either. But anytime you are B2B with a model in one unit, you must allocate at that unit (or IC).

Also, when a Walker is in close combat and scored more wounds than the squad he is fighting, can you break away? because I have always taken the rule of not having to take a morale check to mean that you are stuck there until it is destroyed.

If the walker wins combat then yes units fighting him can fail a leadership test and fall back -- assuming the unit that lost doesn't automatically pass morale checks (eg fearless, synapse, etc). However walkers do not test if they lose and do not suffer any ill effects for losing.

HTH and welcome to dakka.

Winterman has all the points covered correctly. One thing to remember is that each Damage Result (even if it is stunned or Shaken) counts as a "Wound" for determining the results. So if you cause 3 Glanced, all Crew - Shaken and the walker only does 1 Wound, the unit stays locked because they won the combat and the Walker doesn't do anything.

One caveat. If the IC is with a retinue instead of just joining a unit, he does not have to be in btb, etc, he's treated as an upgrade character (sgt, whatever).

don_mondo wrote:One caveat. If the IC is with a retinue instead of just joining a unit, he does not have to be in btb, etc, he's treated as an upgrade character (sgt, whatever).

Just remember that no 5th Edition Codexes have Retinues, only Old 3rd and 4th Edition Codexes have them. Not 100% sure But I do not think any Codexes after Blood Angels have Retinues anymore.

What about like...a body guard? Would they be considered a Retinues because I thought the 5th edition rules mentioned them somewhere.

Winterman has all the points covered correctly. One thing to remember is that each Damage Result (even if it is stunned or Shaken) counts as a "Wound" for determining the results. So if you cause 3 Glanced, all Crew - Shaken and the walker only does 1 Wound, the unit stays locked because they won the combat and the Walker doesn't do anything.

Yeah I know, I had a Venerable Dreadnought holding up a squad of 4 wraithguard because I couldn't score a 5 or 6 twice in a row and only managed to destroy his dreadnought arm. For 2 whole turns that gak went on until I finally scored a kill w/ my wraithblade and got a 6 with a rerolled 5. Nonsense that was.

Forsakenmantra wrote:What about like...a body guard? Would they be considered a Retinues because I thought the 5th edition rules mentioned them somewhere.

it depends. If it is a Unit that is bought for the IC and the IC cannot leave it, then it is a retinue.

Roger, that makes sense. A question regarding IC's while on the topic, can an Autarch in a squad of say...warp spiders including an exarch w/ the hit and run ability use it as well? Or is the squad blocked from using it for as long as the Autarch is present. The autarch has the warp pack as well obviously. I have always wondered about that.

Hit and Run is a USR marked with an asterisk. "Special rules marked with an asterisk (*) are automatically lost by an independent character joining a unit that does not have the same special rule. These rules are also lost by a unit that is pined by an independent character that does not have the same special rule."

So yeah, if the Autarch is with them, they lose H&R.