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Is there a better value magic item than Van Horstmann's Speculum? For a mere 30pts, you can transform your lowly Empire General into a raging Bloodthirster by the simple expedient of shouting "Challenge!". Two rounds of combat later and the mightiest Lord choice in Warhammer has been safely dispatched back to the Realm of Chaos.

Ok, in the above example, you've got to hunt it down first (I use Orb of Thunder to force it to the ground), but are there any other weaknesses to this wonder device that I'm missing

Playing against an army that has hero characters worse than the one you've given the speculum to. That's a pretty apparent weakness.

I mean, it's a great item, and killing a bloodthirster is ALWAYS nice, I would probably always put one on a wizard or something.

Remember you have to get to an enemy character, and then get him to accept the challenge.

The warrior priest lord on the wagon should always have it.
Warrior priests in knight units should also be candidates for it.

Captain on pegasus is a standard for it because he has the mvt to get to enemy characters on your terms.

Everyone sees it coming so the odds of working a good player aren't that great as any general worth his salt will refuse any empire character's challenge or just let the champ take it.

Now that people expect it it's not quite as deadly, though it is still quite fun to use.

It's an item that's great if your opponent does not expect it.

It's a good item even if he expects it.

When playig against a regular opponent it can be great not to field it. He'll expect it and react accordingly. I've had opponents ducking characters out of the way simply because I agressively moved a Wizard on horseback forward!

Bat Manuel wrote:Everyone sees it coming so the odds of working a good player aren't that great as any general worth his salt will refuse any empire character's challenge or just let the champ take it.

A challenge can't be refused if there's nothing to hide behind, so would work fine for my Greater Daemon example.

I guess it fails in your example where you are up against a unit with a poor champion but strong hero/lord (e.g. Vampire Counts).

That said, you don't have to use it and it remains a nice deterrant to superhuman nasties seeking you out.

But what happens if that bloodthirster good the obsidian armor then?

Obsidian Armor turns off magic weapons, not other magic items like the Speculum.

Really, it's ridiculously awesome for the fact that it keeps Greater Daemons in check all game when put on the right character/combo.

It is a no brainer, frankly. Its the great equaliser, always has been since when magic itesm were on cards and everyone could take them.

My favourite combo was Speculum and parrying blade. when on a wizard champion in a challenge the enemy got 0 attacks.

Even if the mega character refuses the challenge, doesn't the enemy unit lose his attacks? You can choose not to use the thing, right? So if mega character falls back, you don't turn it on, whale on the champ, get overkill combat res, and deny the character a chance to fight.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Obsidian Armor turns off magic weapons, not other magic items like the Speculum.

Really, it's ridiculously awesome for the fact that it keeps Greater Daemons in check all game when put on the right character/combo.

WHAT???? oO

I've been cheated then.........He told it was all Magic items in B2B........

Polonius wrote:Even if the mega character refuses the challenge, doesn't the enemy unit lose his attacks? You can choose not to use the thing, right? So if mega character falls back, you don't turn it on, whale on the champ, get overkill combat res, and deny the character a chance to fight.

Yes, If the refusing (and thus hiding) hero has a place to retreat to, he won't be participating in combat. It has to be said that empire characters aren't really combat machines so you won't be racking up too much combat resolution from anything but the lowliest unit leaders.

Chaoslord wrote:

Polonius wrote:Even if the mega character refuses the challenge, doesn't the enemy unit lose his attacks? You can choose not to use the thing, right? So if mega character falls back, you don't turn it on, whale on the champ, get overkill combat res, and deny the character a chance to fight.

Yes, If the refusing (and thus hiding) hero has a place to retreat to, he won't be participating in combat. It has to be said that empire characters aren't really combat machines so you won't be racking up too much combat resolution from anything but the lowliest unit leaders.

Yeah, but even a Warrior priest will probably at least kill the champ. Throw in the denial of the big guys attacks and Empires usually advantage in CR, and it's still a good tactic. Do non-overkill wounds count towards CR? The unit also usually loses it's highest LD.

It's still a great item, but it doesn't protect the entire army and unit champions make it almost worthless.

It will however kill a stupid greater daemon user...and probably make them cry.

That's why sniping unit champs with a HLR can be a really good idea!

Also, when he accepts with his champ you'll likely easily kill him and generate some Overkill CR. At the same time his nasty character is not allowed to target your character that's fighting the challenge, that's a bit of protection really.

Of course his character will likely wade into your RnF so you're in danger of losing on CR.