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K this time i think my UNA is good to go with enough steel Tac arm + core troops

Red Blok is naturally missing pieces , i bought them to go around the contents of what the super super nice army box have.
However atm poor and traumatized from Canadian Custom and their tax.

But me and my cousin practice playing without the force organization . Just straight whole army vs whole army .

I have to say, i LOVE AT-43 rules . It feels so realistic ( especially over watch rule )

AT-43 always looked cool to me.

How is it, Luna? I've heard good things, but I've never tried it myself.

I wondered why the stores are running out too fast now. Looks like its your fault Luna.

Cryonicleech wrote:AT-43 always looked cool to me.

How is it, Luna? I've heard good things, but I've never tried it myself.

Basic thing that stands out for the game is:

Damages are deadly. It makes sure you use LOS and Terrains well ( as it should be )
The accuracy goes along with range as 1 stat . (other then template weapons)
Combat Moves: You can shoot then move , or move then shoot .
Over Watch: You can wait in ambush so when enemies move closer to your perfered distance you'll shoot them first.
Indirect weapons are very deadly , and causes tons of confusion for the victim ( after all ...when shell lands , would you really know which side of of wall to hide? )
The units really benefit from each other , play them together in sync will yield good results.
This game isnt like Rambo ( you dont jump in the middle of everything and expect to live... unless you are Red Blok!..some what ) , think of it like Counter Strike (sorry since i have never been in a war :'P)


The models:

Infantry :The heads can move , the torso can move , some minis the arms can too.

Strider and Tanks: Hip area can rotate , up or down , weapons some can swivel , most can point to your perfered angle.
Cockpits can open , it has full interior inside. Weapons are interchangeable easily for swapping.
All the movement things does not require any sort of pinning. The materials + the way its designed there is no need.

The materials of the models: I have no idea what material it is (im guessing plastic) but this is nothing like the GW ones.
Its able to bend to a point like resin without snapping , and with heat you can bend it any way you want.
Its very durable , thus they are able to make very detailed parts without having them break every time its handled.

Painting: Yes its pre painted and washed , decaled , and battle damage. The paints are thinly applied , yet for some reason it does not chip ( its a good thing! )
but it also means you can paint directly over it without need to prime / undercoat.

Books and Cards:
Every page of the army book is colored , just like any codex it has fluff , stats , and lots of nice art work. (Imo , it feels like owning an art book lol im very happy)
Cards: Well , its especially good for people like me with bad memory , so i dont have to flip through the pages digging for unit stats.

Of course, then we have the cons: ( or else its just biased babbling! )

Model: Right now , the price is ok because there is an on going discount sale . Without it , i fear it'll be hard to afford .
However , the nice army box set is incredible ($52 for 3 infantry units ,1 large strider , 1 extra large strider , terrains ) ,
and easily remedies the situation ( myself is waiting for army box so i can complete my Red Blok )

Books: One thing that agitates me is how things are written in the book. For example , if you want to buy upgrades , they dont tell you how much they cost directly.
Instead they show you what it'll cost after the upgrade ( feels like they think you cant do math yourself )

The fluff: I understand this is translated from french , and i really like the background plot. However i cant stand the translated writting style , its like reading something translated
from randomly hired student translator that have never played the game or heard of AT-43 . It doesnt get into character at all.

More review on the books!

The covers both front and back are made by different materials. From silky smooth to embossed Army Icon.


Everything inside is colored. The fluff is backed up by beautiful army related pictures , and propaganda posters.
Every unit have their art picture , strategies , and more fluff. And of course , unit stats cards.


*Disclaimers ( for some individual that seem to mock me if i dont post this )
This is not an in depth review , so forgive me if it doesnt provide ALL the info . Though it doesnt have to.
Im just a fan / collector / gamer . I did not sculpt / prepaint / print / or come up with any of the game concepts.
While it seems silly i have to write this , the certain individual have been trolling me to do so.

Come to think of it you could do well buy buying a few Damocles sets Luna, you will get ther low walls you need, Fire Toads and Steel Troopers, let alone dice tape measures and crates,... and some Therians to swap or build on.

Even if you bought Damocles just for what you are missing: the low walls, crates, Fire Taods and Steel Troopers you will have filled in a lot for $30, and more than matcherd price for the components.

I got four boxsets, which is about right IMHO and gave me a fair sum of terrain. However according to the pattern of army size you are looking at I would go with six, perhaps eight.

I would also buy Borz while at it he is rather useful.

Some questions:

How many Red Blok army boxes are you after?

Why three Epsteins?

-I cant afford the shipping cost for Damocle set . Normally this would be tolerated since its a good deal.
However i believe UNA army box will provide me with all the base troops i'll need (by then i'll buy the red blok army box with it , thas why RedBlok have been incomplete)

-Borz ... ( he is an ugly troll >.< )

-Im after 1 Red Blok army only ( i'll give those rocket launcher and specialist to the box set squad )

- 3 Epstone because i bought the rest of the tac arm you see in 1 deal. ( as well as even more death dealer that i dont use )
but it was a good deal , cant say no to it ^^;

- Therians from Damocle set , yes they are nice and can give me enough weapons to make incubus gogolth , but they were never an army
i have interest in. The one and only reason it gave me enough interest to make it into an army is because they look like [ Blame! Biomega ] Safe Guards.

Here is the link if you want to read it. They are seriously 100% like Therians

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/blame/c001/1.html

LunaHound wrote:-I cant afford the shipping cost for Damocle set . Normally this would be tolerated since its a good deal.
However i believe UNA army box will provide me with all the base troops i'll need (by then i'll buy the red blok army box with it , thas why RedBlok have been incomplete)

i understand, get MM to debox for you.

LunaHound wrote:
-Borz ... ( he is an ugly troll )

Matybe, but he has a laser designator. you have plenty of Snakes and Cobras there, you need designators. Yes your Tacarms carry them but TacArms are vulnerable and have no medics. When I expose my TacArms to designate they get shot up very fast. Borz can sit in cover with two medics all day and laser designate away while his team shoots some missiles, he can also do this right from the back as his team doesnt need ranging. Furtheremore if you do this in Centcom Borz is free. He isnt a bad pilot either, but doesnt offer too much. Killing the one laser designating Fire Toad is no harder than a team of Tacarms.

LunaHound wrote:
-Im after 1 Red Blok army only ( i'll give those rocket launcher and specialist to the box set squad )

With the amount of walkers you are buying I was expecting you to buy three. You know you are going to have problems making legal lists without * and/or ** infantry. You have a lot of Kolossi so you can take a legal Frontline list this way, but you need two Dragonovs to make even a single GenCol or Supra platoon and two Krasny for anything else. Also Krasny are good for the machanics.
My Red Blok not army box purchase plan is smaller than yours with one Kossak, one Urod and five Kolossi squads, and that is to be added to two Army deals plus a bitz order of Krasny and Dragonovs from same.

LunaHound wrote:
- 3 Epstone because i bought the rest of the tac arm you see in 1 deal. ( as well as even more death dealer that i dont use )
but it was a good deal , cant say no to it ^^;

Sounds like you got a bargain. Still you could sell some of them on.

LunaHound wrote:
- Therians from Damocle set , yes they are nice and can give me enough weapons to make incubus gogolth , but they were never an army
i have interest in.

Again you can resell those, in the above thread I indicated how Damocles is worth buying even just for UNA and terrain. I got into Therians simply because they are the main antagonist and because Tiamat plus a Baal plus three units of Goliaths made a very cheap add on to the order, which when added to four Damocles boxsets of Therians made an instant army that I dont need to add to. It was an extra $65 for the core add on, though I got a pair of attachments too, but need not have done so. For that I got a whole new large and effective army. Besides I grew to like them. If they were not in Damocles I would not have bothered though and gone straight for Red Blok. Therians play different to the other races, which is what makes them interesting.

In my next order I will be buying a seciond Baal, Urash and maybe some Grim Golems with Atis. Again not too much but it should further round out the army, i already think I have too many Wraith Golgoths and am looking at some conversions into Kraken and Incubi.

Great work on the bases Lunahound, Its amazing how far just a little basing goes to make AT-43 models "pop" with color and detail. Im working on all new bases for my Karmans with plans to do same for my Red blok. keep up the good work and be sure to post more pictures when your finished....

Those rebased units came from eBay, I believe, not any work LunaHound did. I saw those auctions. Credit where credit is due...

Orlanth is right, for the price Op Damocles boxes are worth it just for the terrain, and the UNA and Therian toys resell easily on eBay. You'd pay $15 for two containers, six low walls, and two nanogenerators from an Accessory Set. For $30 you take out the terrain from Op Damocles, sell the models in two lots of $15 each, you just got free terrain, dice, a gaming poster and a measuring tape.

ON EDIT:

BTW, LunaHound, seeing as how you're writing reviews of the gameplay already...have you actually played the game yet? With which armies? How many times? Just curious...

Saint Anuman wrote:Great work on the bases Lunahound, Its amazing how far just a little basing goes to make AT-43 models "pop" with color and detail. Im working on all new bases for my Karmans with plans to do same for my Red blok. keep up the good work and be sure to post more pictures when your finished....

Actually , im waiting to find myself a bottle of snow paste ( all the bases in my gallery are made from those ) however... when i phoned the craft store they said "can you wait till christmas?" oh god....
Personally i use these models as diorama to go along with my Human vs Bydo armies . So they'll be rebased into urban city ruins with snow.

To Cairnius:
a) I didnt state anywhere that i did the bases.
b) They are going to be rebased anyways , thus i see even less point to point that out.
c) If this was posted in painting modelling section , then yes i'll 100% agree. However, the pic was mainly taken
to get a feel / advice on whether it'll be a working list ( which of course others have been giving very good advices already)

Yes Damocles box set are very nice , but since i know for sure we'll be getting 2 army boxs in the future (or more if cousin likes therian or karmans) , so.. i really dont care for more walls or containers.
My cousin is currently deciding whether to get : Valkryie or Imperial Strong point. Either way they'll be used as walls (im sure we have enough walls, i didnt even take pics of walls that belongs to him) .
Valkyrie makes nice transports for AT-43 ( though im more interested in proxing it as Dotch Yaga hehe)

Lastly , i know walls can be sold and such , but like most people says , feebay is expensive. So i rather avoid dealing with getting things i dont need.

Or

Actually Luna, I was only mentioning the terrain from Damocles in passing, the main reason to get a set was the UNA you get in it.

A Fire Toad costs almost as much as the Damocles boxset, and you have one lonely Fire Toad, it needs friends. All those big grown up Cobras and Snakes are staying together but poor little Toad is all alone with noone to play with.

Steel troopers are also too useful, furthermore you have very little infantry other than Tac Arms. yes you can make a nasty Morningstar with this collection, but its just about all you can do. you have enough basic infantry for only two platoons of M.Ind, and can fill parts of a third. Two more Damocles boxsets would really open it up for you. Besides if you are hoping your cousin will start up you can fix things with a gift of an intro rulebook and a small army of Therians.

Oh, I didn't say you said you did the bases, Luna. No...I was responding to the Saint's comment congratulating you on the bases.

You got excellent prices on those Red Blok striders. I was very surprised that they went for less with the touch-ups and the bases. It was pretty much those auctions that made me decide not to bother re-painting my stuff before I sold it as it didn't seem like "value added."

I take it from your avoiding my question that you haven't actually played the game yet? You may want to refrain from speaking to the gameplay yet, as it sounds like you're just parroting what others have told you...that's a valid point, I think.

Also, it's worth correcting that only some UNA units have interchangable heads - Steel Troopers not from Damocles (you can remove the heads on Op Damocles Steel Troopers but they are glued in so it will take some work), Star Troopers, and Wing Troopers. On the rest of the infantry heads are not necessarily moveable. You may be able to loosen them up, but they're not designed that way.

Most infantry models in the UNA and Red Blok line do have torsos that can swivel.

Also worth correcting that only UNA Cobras have cockpits you can open. All Red Blok striders do open. Want to make sure people get the right information, don't you know, especially in something labeled a "review."

Cairnius wrote:Also worth correcting that only UNA Cobras have cockpits you can open. All Red Blok striders do open. Want to make sure people get the right information, don't you know, especially in something labeled a "review."

UNA Toads open just as much as the Cobras. It is made from the same parts.

Some of the Karman trikes also open.

Of all the striders, only Stark's Copperhead comes with a pilot inside so far.
Unless you count that brain thing or the faces on Therian AFVs as a pilot

UNA TAC ARMS also swivel at the torso and have interchangable torso for a SGT body (I have three sets so I am using them as a target designator team and the "not so LE" open Tac Arm Sgt as my leader for the other squads)

Red Blok Kollusus do not swivel at the torso, but have moving arms.

Red Blok Striders have removable bodies so that you can display them as being destroyed by "taking them apart" and then they can be used for cover if you so wish in your games.

You can also do this with the Baal. I am not sure of the Dotch Yoga or the Firecrawler.

The Opamocles set was the first release and later products gave more freedom of motion and parts options. For instance, he weapons from the Wraiths Golgoth in the seperate box have removable weapons and a random weapon to make either the poltergeist or incubus variant, whereas the Opamocles ones were glued on.

It is like comparing the WH40k Battle for Macragge or Black Reach Space Marines to the ones in a Tactical Squad Box.

Just want to make sure people get the right information.

Cairnius wrote:
Also worth correcting that only UNA Cobras have cockpits you can open. All Red Blok striders do open. Want to make sure people get the right information, don't you know, especially in something labeled a "review."

So far Luna has only got as far as posting the pretty piccies of her army and answering related questions, give her time.

Cairnius wrote:
ON EDIT:
BTW, LunaHound, seeing as how you're writing reviews of the gameplay already...have you actually played the game yet? With which armies? How many times? Just curious...

Gee , you have even problems to me listing what i like about the system? You seriously have nothing better to do?
Did i say it was in depth review?
I would say you almost sound like you are trolling if you werent polite about it . Of course, thats your forte after all.

Cairnius wrote:
I take it from your avoiding my question that you haven't actually played the game yet? You may want to refrain from speaking to the gameplay yet, as it sounds like you're just parroting what others have told you...that's a valid point, I think.

Also worth correcting that only UNA Cobras have cockpits you can open. All Red Blok striders do open. Want to make sure people get the right information, don't you know, especially in something labeled a "review."

Oh god , heaven forbids me that i can read the rule book , and i can state what i like about the unique system from AT-43 ?
So because i like samething others like , it makes me parroting ?

Did i say Red Blok striders cockpit doesnt open? why would you say thats wrong info? And no you are wrong , fire toads can open too . You see "sir" i have no problem with been corrected when im wrong.
I just oh find this oh so ironic you try to pick faults when you are wrong yourself.

Seriously , anyone with half a brain can see you are just trolling me.

唉... 蠢貨跟蟑螂一樣殺不完 .

Orlanth wrote:Actually Luna, I was only mentioning the terrain from Damocles in passing, the main reason to get a set was the UNA you get in it.
A Fire Toad costs almost as much as the Damocles boxset, and you have one lonely Fire Toad, it needs friends. All those big grown up Cobras and Snakes are staying together but poor little Toad is all alone with noone to play with.

Hehe yes thank you Orlanth , thats very cute. ( I was laughing till tears come out irl ) when i try to picture you say that.
But hmm , yes i need fire toads but i perfer ones that comes with other weapon options. ( I like mortars for my toads )

Wow, thanks for the "review" Luna.......

I guess I'll look into it more.

UNA Toads aren't built to open. You have to pry them open with something, and risk damage in the process. Of all the UNA vehicles I own only the Defender Cobra is built specifically to open. I cannot speak to the Defender M8 or the Fire Crawler and whether they have hinged cockpits.

Likewise, some Therian AFV's have the "brain thing" inside them, but these toys are also not built to be opened, so you have to pry them open yourself. Just, again, be careful if you try it.

I own no Karman vehicles so cannot speak to that point, hence didn't.

I suppose you could take bodies off Red Blok striders to display them as being destroyed, but destroyed vehicles in AT-43 are removed from the table, so you're breaking the rules if you leave a torso on the table and use it as cover. Of course, with everyone making up their own rules as they go along this may be perfectly-permissible to many...

They're not "designed" to do this, however...the removable torsos has to do with how they're produced, I am sure, and nothing more...

Orlanth, the only reason I'm pointing out Luna "reviewing" the gameplay when she's never played the game is because what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to call it a "review" then don't talk about stuff you don't know anything about yet. LunaHound was asked "How is it?" by Cryonicleech, and I don't think he wasn't asking about the gameplay. It doesn't take half a brain to figure that out, either.

The truth is, Luna doesn't know how the game is. She's been told how it is by the fans over on the AT-43 forums but doesn't know from personal experience - and I remember being in the same position and parroting the opinions of the AT-43 fans when I was telling members of my gaming club about the game and trying to get them interested in it because I wanted them to play it with me...but I hadn't played the game yet, either.

Luna won't be able to review the gameplay until she has some full games under her belt, so she's not qualified to answer any questions about gameplay and should have said so in the interests of fairness, which I've been called on many, many times. Let's not wave our double-standards about...negative, informed reviews criticized, positive reviews written from ignorance allowed to stand? Bad show, old boy.


BTW, I personally don't care, but what are the Dakka Dakka rules on posting up rulebook pages with unit stats? It's a huge no-no to post GW unit stats up on the web due to IP rights...Rackham may not be nearly as litigious but it's worth considering...

Well to be fair Cairnius I haven't learned much since playing that I hadnt worked out by looking at the rulebooks and even before that from looking at the stats and the table of resolution.

I decided to say 'I am wondering if' or words to that effect rather than make more definitive staterments in earlier threads, even though I was pretty sure what was what and only looking for detail confirmation.

Did you get the email?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:UNA Toads aren't built to open. You have to pry them open with something, and risk damage in the process.

If I do, do I see a detailed interior, and is there an unpainted pilot?

If so it might be worth a bit of damage to extract the figure and reseal afterwards, or open up hinge and add a figure from a Sentinel or whatever.

LunaHound wrote:Books: One thing that agitates me is how things are written in the book. For example , if you want to buy upgrades , they dont tell you how much they cost directly.
Instead they show you what it'll cost after the upgrade ( feels like they think you cant do math yourself )

The fluff: I understand this is translated from french , and i really like the background plot. However i cant stand the translated writting style , its like reading something translated from randomly hired student translator that have never played the game or heard of AT-43 . It doesnt get into character at all.

So, I finally bit the bullet and signed up for Dakka (been around many other boards, but only lurked around Dakka). This post is the reason why I signed up here.

LunaHound's description of the books is exactly the reason I contacted Rackham in the first place and offered to assist them with their French to English translation. I can assure you that the upcoming books will have a much nicer ebb and flow to them.

By the way, that was a pretty good review, but there are a few things which need mentioning:

LunaHound wrote:Damages are deadly. It makes sure you use LOS and Terrains well ( as it should be )
The accuracy goes along with range as 1 stat . (other then template weapons)
Combat Moves: You can shoot then move , or move then shoot .
Over Watch: You can wait in ambush so when enemies move closer to your perfered distance you'll shoot them first.
Indirect weapons are very deadly , and causes tons of confusion for the victim ( after all ...when shell lands , would you really know which side of of wall to hide? )
The units really benefit from each other , play them together in sync will yield good results.
This game isnt like Rambo ( you dont jump in the middle of everything and expect to live... unless you are Red Blok!..some what ) , think of it like Counter Strike (sorry since i have never been in a war :'P)

As you have mentioned, AT-43 is a quick and dirty shoot-em-up style game. Making one wrong turn, one wrong decision, can be the ruin of a unit. Taking damage is indeed deadly.
The more accurate a shooter is, the more deadly they become. Ranged combat takes into account the accuracy of the shooter as well as the distance between the shooter and its target.
OverWatch is one of many combat drills which can be given to a unit based on the company's leadership ability. Other notable combat drills are TakeCover, KneeToTheGround, SplitFire, Eject, FireAtWill, and ShieldFormation. Each of the drills has a specific ability to imitate real life situations, and thus adds depth to the overall game.
This game requires a little more tactical thought than other games I have played (40K, WarMachine, etc.). It pays to calculate the risks before moving into a firing lane, taking on a vehicle with a big nasty gun, etc.

LunaHound wrote:The models:

Infantry :The heads can move , the torso can move , some minis the arms can too.

Strider and Tanks: Hip area can rotate , up or down , weapons some can swivel , most can point to your perfered angle.
Cockpits can open , it has full interior inside. Weapons are interchangeable easily for swapping.
All the movement things does not require any sort of pinning. The materials + the way its designed there is no need.

The materials of the models: I have no idea what material it is (im guessing plastic) but this is nothing like the GW ones.
Its able to bend to a point like resin without snapping , and with heat you can bend it any way you want.
Its very durable , thus they are able to make very detailed parts without having them break every time its handled.

Painting: Yes its pre painted and washed , decaled , and battle damage. The paints are thinly applied , yet for some reason it does not chip ( its a good thing! )
but it also means you can paint directly over it without need to prime / undercoat.

Books and Cards:
Every page of the army book is colored , just like any codex it has fluff , stats , and lots of nice art work. (Imo , it feels like owning an art book lol im very happy)
Cards: Well , its especially good for people like me with bad memory , so i dont have to flip through the pages digging for unit stats.

I am not personally fond of moving the miniatures, but you are correct, many of them can be repositioned and parts/pieces moved during gameplay.

The models are made of a flexible plastic. They can be bent (for the most part) without breaking and, as you have mentioned, can be repositioned easily using a simple heating process (dipping them in hot water, for example). They are pre-painted, and look good (in my opinion). They are also easy to repaint if desired. Many AT-43 (and Confrontation) players and modelers have posted repaints on the respective forums.

The books contain beautiful artwork. Also, Rackham is one of a very few companies that still uses hand-drawn pencil n' paper images rather than computer graphics. They have many talented artists that do work for them. The Army Books are beautiful, inside and out.

LunaHound wrote:Of course, then we have the cons: ( or else its just biased babbling! )

Model: Right now , the price is ok because there is an on going discount sale . Without it , i fear it'll be hard to afford .
However , the nice army box set is incredible ($52 for 3 infantry units ,1 large strider , 1 extra large strider , terrains ) ,
and easily remedies the situation ( myself is waiting for army box so i can complete my Red Blok )

Books: One thing that agitates me is how things are written in the book. For example , if you want to buy upgrades , they dont tell you how much they cost directly.
Instead they show you what it'll cost after the upgrade ( feels like they think you cant do math yourself )

The fluff: I understand this is translated from french , and i really like the background plot. However i cant stand the translated writting style , its like reading something translated
from randomly hired student translator that have never played the game or heard of AT-43 . It doesnt get into character at all.

Every game has cons. A good game is one where the pros outweigh the cons, and in a great game the cons are negligible. One of the aspects of this game is the ability to create "house rules". Rackham has been adament that they created this game and gave the players guidelines to have FUN with the game. It was never intended as a tournament-style game, but a "pick-up and play in a friend's basement" style game. With that said, for those seeking tournament-style rules you won't find them with AT-43 (yet).

Rackham is working on a new pricing model based on feedback from fans of the game. The army boxes are the tip of the iceberg. Smarter and more eco-friendly packaging is in the pipeline. Even though their PR is a little lacking, Rackham does listen to its fans.

As far as the books and fluff, well, see my first comments.

Glad to have you aboard, LunaHound. Hopefully your review will entice others to give the game a try.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:BTW, I personally don't care, but what are the Dakka Dakka rules on posting up rulebook pages with unit stats? It's a huge no-no to post GW unit stats up on the web due to IP rights...Rackham may not be nearly as litigious but it's worth considering...

Rackham is pretty lenient in this regard. Most of the rules can be found for free on their website, and so it wouldn't surprise me if showing a photograph of a book was perfectly permissible in their eyes.

Orlanth wrote:

Cairnius wrote:UNA Toads aren't built to open. You have to pry them open with something, and risk damage in the process.

If I do, do I see a detailed interior, and is there an unpainted pilot?

If so it might be worth a bit of damage to extract the figure and reseal afterwards, or open up hinge and add a figure from a Sentinel or whatever.

As I said above, the only one that comes with a pilot inside is the Stark/Copperhead Cobra Defender.

The interior has some guages on the door and a control panel in front of the pilot. There are some guages and hydraulic/power cables on the walls. The seat is cushioned chair with unpainted eject handles. For the most part the interiors are not painted well if at all. The pilot of UNA AFVs usually has a laptop computer that plugs in. This is what the Sgt. Borz miniature is carrying with him at all times.

I have seen it painted very well. I have seen some people convert Borz to fit in there.

Cairnius.

<°((((<(

TOAD Interiors

Yes, these are professionally repainted. The pilot is the same guy you will find in the Cobra Defender, but he does not currently come with the TOADS.

The only thing I thought might be problematic was the picture of Omega Tiamat and her stats. Everything else was okay - but it's the unit stats that always get GW's panties in a bunch.


I have to take issue with the statement that AT-43 requires more tactical thought than 40K. I find that a game in which you can make an error, recover from it, and then correct your strategy ultimately requires more tactical thought in that you are making more tactical decisions over the course of the game, and having to make more adaptations to your strategy.

These sorts of games also require more strategic thought, as well, in that your strategy is given the option to change as units reform and recover. In AT-43 it's more "tactics" that change than "strategy," micro and macro.

In AT-43 the fact that you lose units so quickly means that you ultimately may wind up making fewer tactical decisions overall in an average game than you do in 40K...so if you want to talk about volume of tactical thought, or "more," 40K takes it. Also, 40K games last longer so, again, have much greater volume of decisions to be made.

AT-43 requires "different" kinds of tactical thought than 40K due to the rules, but then that also depends on which 40K armies you are playing against. I played against a Deathwing army last night and they will punish you severely if you make a wrong move - and if you build your army right to kill Deathwing Terminators (like I did with two full Sternguard squads, 2 meltas, 8 combi-plasmas, and Libby with Null Zone to force Invul save re-rolls) then you can wipe out units as quickly as you can in AT-43 on either side of that game.

Just ask anyone who has stood against Nob Bikerz...

It always pays to calculate risks before making a move, no more so in AT-43 than in 40K...the difference is that AT-43 may make you pay more dearly, on average, and because you usually only get 50%-75% of your army at the beginning and need the rest to earn you the reinforcement points to call the remainder of your army in, you can't afford to lose too many mans at the beginning.

But then again, depending on which mans we are talking about, in 40K if you lose the wrong ones at the wrong time the rest of your mans might not matter so much even if you did get them all at once...



I would like to agree that the AT-43 army books are very cool. AT-43 is the only game where I considered actually purchasing army books for armies that I didn't play - but then only due to the firesale prices. And then again, I did play all but one army so had them anyway. But I did think about picking up the Karman book just to have the whole set.

The fluff may be very much vamping off 40K (war is everywhere/no one escapes war/etc.) but it always felt more "realistic" to me because it could be incorporated into our reality without TOO much of a stretch, so that's worth mentioning as well.

I don't think it is accurate to say that "very few" companies still use hand-drawn pencil and paper images...the Flames of War rulebooks use them on covers and in section headings...GW books are loaded with gorgeous art...yes they also have computer graphics but their rulebooks are twice the size of AT-43 books so there's plenty of room for both...and you can look at the Horus Heresy book covers, the new Space Marine Codex, the Dark Elves Army Book...the new WHFB Empire Heraldry book is full of hand-drawn, gorgeous art...

Give Rackham credit where it is due for nice layouts and some interesting art aesthetics (though Captain Newton's picture in the UNA book looks downright odd), but they're by no means ahead of the curve in either quality or amounts.



I think any game is designed for people to have fun with it. Where Rackham is different is in their willingness to let people ignore the rules in the interests of having fun, or the company's willingness to make very significant rules changes (like allowing friendly troops to target other friendly troops with direct-fire weapons, an across-the-board rules change for the whole game) on the basis of a single question asked by a player on their forums in the interests of "fun."

It is a different psychology when it comes to rules. If you're looking for something much looser than 40K or any other game which depends on concrete, defined rules, than AT-43 is going to have a lot to offer you, this much is very true.


I'm not sure it is fair to say that Rackham is really working on a new pricing model. The Army Boxes are pretty standard loss-leaders. Yes they are 2000 AP armies in and of themselves, but a big part of AT-43 is composing your armies as the last step in game prep...so if all you have are these Army Boxes, veteran players of AT-43 with deep collections will be able to construct armies specifically-designed to kill you very quickly - and considering how brutal the game is, that can be VERY quickly.

After a fashion, the Army Box armies not much different than what Battle for Macragge or Assault on Black Reach give you. They are "starters" for armies which need adding-on to in order to be competitive.

2000 AP is also a very small game for most veteran AT-43 players, 3000 AP being the typical standard for Operation: Frostbite missions, and armies like Karmans are often noted for being at a disadvantage at fewer then 2000 AP. With Cog units as expensive AP-wise as they are going to be, they'll be even smaller, and less able to absorb casualties.

So, you're going to have to supplement Army Boxes pretty quickly in order to keep up with established vets who want to play AT-43 at more than 2000 AP, and the MSRP's on the new Cog unit boxes are still $30.00 each...so, you could pay $70 MSRP for an Army Box and then have to pay twice that to get up to 3000 AP - and then you still are going to be very limited on the kinds of armies you can build, and will have to start purchasing more units just like any other game in order to be able to compete with people with deep collections as in AT-43 you can build your army after the mission is selected and the terrain laid out.

No one really talks about that much, which is surprising as it is a MAJOR difference to how people build armies in other games. In AT-43, you select the AP value for the game, figure out the mission and set up the terrain, and THEN compose your army.

It's basically like tailoring lists in 40K, but much worse. I find that this actually detracts from the amount of strategic and tactical thinking you have to do in AT-43 versus 40K because in 40K, if you play tourney-style in the sense of composing a list for a game and then sticking with it regardless of terrain setup and mission rolled, you have to then exercise the strategic and tactical acumen of adapting your fixed list to the new variables thrown at you.

Not so in AT-43. That specific aspect of typical TTW gameplay is absent. Again, for some, that may be a good thing.


@ Duncan -

This website does have an ignore function, you know...add me to your list. Problem solved.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

<°((((<(

You ate fish for tea?

Lunahound, Stick to your guns and find yor fun..LOL
Wondering if your into scenry building since you mentioned your a hobby fan...

Haywire- Good to see you fighting the good fight!

@Orlanth

No, just wondered whether Cairnius had his daily fill.

That specific aspect of typical TTW gameplay is absent.

Sigh, AT goes more in the direction of real war games like FoW where you loose units rather quick thanks to modern weaponry, so no wonder that it does not feel like the standard fantasy-sf game. But that´s completly up to tastes.

I like playing 40K, FoW and AT for their different approaches to TT. What I can' stand are folks who praise their system as the ultimate one. There is no ultimate one. I do play many TTs and I do it for a long time, and I never was able to understand those Crusaders that hat to bring the only truth to the players of other games.
What really gets on my nerves is your badmouthing of things that you don´t like as generally being bad. Though you now put an alibi-"in my opinion" after it. Nontheless it thinly veils your agenda.

Saint Anuman wrote:Lunahound, Stick to your guns and find yor fun..LOL
Wondering if your into scenry building since you mentioned your a hobby fan...

OMG this is such an intrawebs faux pas to point out but I have to because you keep doing it, Saint, and it's like nails on a chalkboard.

"You're." A contraction for "you are." "Wondering if you're into scenery....you're a hobby fan..."

The spelling mistakes never bother me, but the "you're" bit kills me. Same with "their," "they're," and "there." It's like when you see store signs while out driving and the apostrophes are in the wrong place..."Huge Sale's Today!"

Haywire calls me a rules laywer because I like rules to be consistent...not the definition most of us use the phrase to mean but okay...I guess I'm a "spelling lawyer," too.


@ Duncan

I don't know how you play Flames of War, but I never lose units quickly because I play smart. I play very patiently and strategically. Infantry is damn near impossible to kill if you play them right and force the assault...I've never seen a game that is LESS about wiping out your enemy than Flames of War, which is why I love it.

I really had to raise an eyebrow at that comment. You lose Flames of War units quickly? Maybe Soviet hordes rampaging across open ground, but that's why they have Zerg-like numbers of infantry stands and run in Battalions instead of Companies...

I also dislike people who praise their system as the ultimate one. They all have their pros and cons.

If you want to discuss AT-43 in the genre of tabletop wargames, then expect it to get the same treatment that GW gets on a regular basis. I at least try to be respectful in how I express the counterpoint to the fanboys - most of the negative comments on AT-43 online aren't even about the gameplay but are limited to "The minis suck" or "No one plays this game, lol," or "Rackham has a bad reputation."

You and all the other fanboys should thank me for bringing the counterpoint and giving you something to post about...notice how I stopped posting on Warseer and now no one is bothering to discuss AT-43 anymore? Back into the fog of anonymity...and how many Sentinels now have created Dakka Dakka accounts since I got your all looking over here?

You're welcome.

Cairnius wrote:
Haywire calls me a rules laywer because I like rules to be consistent...not the definition most of us use the phrase to mean but okay...I guess I'm a "spelling lawyer," too.

I have NEVER called YOU a rules laywer or rules lawyer! Get that fact straight, Cairnius.

I am looking at the email I sent you and here is the EXACT phrase.

Maybe I am wrong, but your posting style also seems to indicate that you are a "rules-lawyer".

Note: Lawyer is spelled correctly, I did not say "YOU", I said "YOUR POSTING STYLE", and I am using correct the YOUR.

Saint Anuman wrote:Lunahound, Stick to your guns and find yor fun..LOL
Wondering if your into scenry building since you mentioned your a hobby fan...

Haywire- Good to see you fighting the good fight!

Saint Anumen, sorry but you are trying too hard.

Rackham zampolits are just what we dont need. There is no good fight to fight here, people either like a game they dont, they play a game or they dont. If I want to start into Warmachine or Infinity I dont feel I have to join a 'cult' to do so, why so with AT-43?

Besides Luna is a hobby fan already. Have you seen her Eldar armies pics, or her IG? There is no mysterious third degree on expanding to include AT-43 in games played.

Cairnius wrote:The only thing I thought might be problematic was the picture of Omega Tiamat and her stats. Everything else was okay - but it's the unit stats that always get GW's panties in a bunch.

Not really an issue, Rackham has the unit stats on free download, not prices or character stats mind you, but luna isnt giving away enough info to bypass the need to buy the codex.
Rackham to give them their due dont appear to be that picky over IP.

Cairnius wrote:
I have to take issue with the statement that AT-43 requires more tactical thought than 40K. I find that a game in which you can make an error, recover from it, and then correct your strategy ultimately requires more tactical thought in that you are making more tactical decisions over the course of the game, and having to make more adaptations to your strategy.
These sorts of games also require more strategic thought, as well, in that your strategy is given the option to change as units reform and recover. In AT-43 it's more "tactics" that change than "strategy," micro and macro.

I have to agree with Luna here. You get inherent combat options, something absent from all major GW games except battlefleet Gothic. with your LP you can gain save boosts, accuracy boosts (sometimes) overwatch etc. Its how I wish 40K was still played. using points to spend on command advantages is not unique to AT-43 and many of the rules are part lifts from 40k. Gw could profit from introducing a command point system of its own, we are seeing the beginning of this wioth Guard, but every army should have its extra abilities and a pool of points to pay for them with.
Anyway the main point is choices equals tactical options. Rather than hasve a unit being used in its default function all day, you get to do something specific better. By choosing correctly you raise above the curve for the unit. This works so well in BFG, got the right orders and you can defeat a superior fleet on the wrongly timed orders. The player becomes more important than the stats.

Cairnius wrote:
In AT-43 the fact that you lose units so quickly means that you ultimately may wind up making fewer tactical decisions overall in an average game than you do in 40K...so if you want to talk about volume of tactical thought, or "more," 40K takes it. Also, 40K games last longer so, again, have much greater volume of decisions to be made.

Possibly true, you might end up making fewer decisions out of attrition, but the flipside is that with cover being so important and take cover a critical order, poor decisions, including reacting with the wrong troops after overwatch has been placed by an opponent can cost you. Panzer Leader had similar rules, system was deadly, but be intelligent order of play an inferior but better led force wins through. DBA also has similar subtleties.
As for the high attrition, it makes exposure of soldiers a risk to be thought through, many units with their mobile coveer saves and invulnarable saves of high T stat can just walk forward and its all a statfest. Most 40K tqactics are really about making a better list than your opponent. Here on Dakka you will find out that some will go to extraordinary lengths to win pissing contests on who can make the default optimised list for an army for the rest of Dakka to copy, some get really nasty if you have a different idea, or prefer a more open style of play, but thats Dakka for you.
Principle remains , well over half the generalship 'quality' in 40k is when you put pen to paper and make up a list, half of whats left is in deployment. The rest is actual choices in play.
At-43 has glaring errors, but its a salvagable system with a solid core and draws on the strengths of historical gaming that GW has repeatedly ignored.

Cairnius wrote:
It always pays to calculate risks before making a move, no more so in AT-43 than in 40K...the difference is that AT-43 may make you pay more dearly, on average, and because you usually only get 50%-75% of your army at the beginning and need the rest to earn you the reinforcement points to call the remainder of your army in, you can't afford to lose too many mans at the beginning.

But then again, depending on which mans we are talking about, in 40K if you lose the wrong ones at the wrong time the rest of your mans might not matter so much even if you did get them all at once...

I agree, but how does the superior reserve rules in At-43 as described strengthen your case?

Cairnius wrote:
I would like to agree that the AT-43 army books are very cool. AT-43 is the only game where I considered actually purchasing army books for armies that I didn't play - but then only due to the firesale prices. And then again, I did play all but one army so had them anyway. But I did think about picking up the Karman book just to have the whole set.

The fluff may be very much vamping off 40K (war is everywhere/no one escapes war/etc.) but it always felt more "realistic" to me because it could be incorporated into our reality without TOO much of a stretch, so that's worth mentioning as well.

I don't think it is accurate to say that "very few" companies still use hand-drawn pencil and paper images...the Flames of War rulebooks use them on covers and in section headings...GW books are loaded with gorgeous art...yes they also have computer graphics but their rulebooks are twice the size of AT-43 books so there's plenty of room for both...and you can look at the Horus Heresy book covers, the new Space Marine Codex, the Dark Elves Army Book...the new WHFB Empire Heraldry book is full of hand-drawn, gorgeous art...

The books are glossy but the quotes and anecdotes are juvenile ansd lowbrow, the fluff is underplayed a bit like early 3rd edition minimal codexes, and the specil rules for each unit are repeated page after page. yes we know what a laser designator is, we dont need to be told the full rules on every subsequent page with TacArms. it looks tio me like they couldnt be bothered to include any prose, so they copy pasted everywhere and added piccies.
Yes Newton art does look odd, glad her mini is better.

Cairnius wrote:
I think any game is designed for people to have fun with it. Where Rackham is different is in their willingness to let people ignore the rules in the interests of having fun, or the company's willingness to make very significant rules changes (like allowing friendly troops to target other friendly troops with direct-fire weapons, an across-the-board rules change for the whole game) on the basis of a single question asked by a player on their forums in the interests of "fun."

Look sentinels, Cairnius is saying something nice about Rackham. i thought you were trying to tell us he is set on auto-bile and should not be given any time?

Cairnius wrote:
I'm not sure it is fair to say that Rackham is really working on a new pricing model. The Army Boxes are pretty standard loss-leaders. Yes they are 2000 AP armies in and of themselves, but a big part of AT-43 is composing your armies as the last step in game prep......After a fashion, the Army Box armies not much different than what Battle for Macragge or Assault on Black Reach give you. They are "starters" for armies which need adding-on to in order to be competitive.

I am not so sure either. it is a classic loss leader I agree, and unit prices have not come down. Hopwefully they will repackage soon reducing the packaging overheads (and coming into line with EU packagiing waste laws) they could also move towards more reasonable compositions for infantry boxsets.

However prepaint is not as cheap as some thought, China controls the induistry not Rackham, and they do know how to milk it. Rackham will begin to offer fairer prices we hope, with the introduction of assemblable kits.

Cairnius wrote:so if all you have are these Army Boxes, veteran players of AT-43 with deep collections will be able to construct armies specifically-designed to kill you very quickly - and considering how brutal the game is, that can be VERY quickly.

Same can be true of any game where you have an army tailored against you by a dick with all the models who knows what little you have. A decent player for any system should take that into account see you cannot custom your list and build a fair list. I have multiple preset low point starter lists fro all my armies and fleets, just pick up and play without someone fro a small game or against a small collection. When I say multiple I will roll d3 to select my list sometimes, especially if I host a game.

Cairnius wrote:
No one really talks about that much, which is surprising as it is a MAJOR difference to how people build armies in other games. In AT-43, you select the AP value for the game, figure out the mission and set up the terrain, and THEN compose your army.

Interesting, I would like to see if this is everyone elses experience. I would prefer against all comers lists at varying points band. Companies should fight with what they have got.



Did you read my email?