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I have 4 questions about special characters

1) are you allowed to have special characters from different chapters in the same army? Like Marneus Calgar and Kayvaan Shrike as both HQ choices?

2) Is there a problem with painting a special character differently to match your army? I ask because some TFGs, might say that unless it's painted as that character it's not that character a la WYSIWYG

3)Can you have more than one of a special character in an army? Like, can I have 2 Danath Lysanders?

4) If a special character dies does the army lose any special rules it conveys to them?

Also a semi-unrelated question. If I have a unit of terminators and a captain, and the captain is not in terminator armour, can the cvaptain make a sweeping advance alone? also if there are models with different initiative values do they make separate sweeping advances, use the highest initiative or the lowest initiative?

spartanghost wrote:1) are you allowed to have special characters from different chapters in the same army? Like Marneus Calgar and Kayvaan Shrike as both HQ choices??

That is perfectly acceptable. You'll probably want to rename one of them. "That's not Marneus Calgar. That's Fistus Maximus. He's a roving champion of the Crimson Fists."

spartanghost wrote:2) Is there a problem with painting a special character differently to match your army? I ask because some TFGs, might say that unless it's painted as that character it's not that character a la WYSIWYG?

Perfectly okay. I can't think of color meaning anything for WYSIWYG. Even Red Paint job could be counted as for any other color really.

spartanghost wrote:3)Can you have more than one of a special character in an army? Like, can I have 2 Danath Lysanders?

No, as the SC's are Unique.

spartanghost wrote:4) If a special character dies does the army lose any special rules it conveys to them??

It depends on the character. I don't have a SM codex handy, but I don't think many of them are lost.

spartanghost wrote:I have 4 questions about special characters

1) are you allowed to have special characters from different chapters in the same army? Like Marneus Calgar and Kayvaan Shrike as both HQ choices?

2) Is there a problem with painting a special character differently to match your army? I ask because some TFGs, might say that unless it's painted as that character it's not that character a la WYSIWYG

3)Can you have more than one of a special character in an army? Like, can I have 2 Danath Lysanders?

4) If a special character dies does the army lose any special rules it conveys to them?

Also a semi-unrelated question. If I have a unit of terminators and a captain, and the captain is not in terminator armour, can the cvaptain make a sweeping advance alone? also if there are models with different initiative values do they make separate sweeping advances, use the highest initiative or the lowest initiative?

1) yes. Still, only ONE SC may give his ruleset to your army. So choose between MarneusC and Shrike.

2) no. SC are usable as "counts as". Paint-scheme compatible to your army is fine.

3) No. Most of them are unique, therefore maximal 1 of them available.

4) No.

spartanghost 4 questions about special characters

1) are you allowed to have special characters from different chapters in the same army? Like Marneus Calgar and Kayvaan Shrike as both HQ choices?
Perfectly fine please note the rules for combat tactic may be lost.

2) Is there a problem with painting a special character differently to match your army? I ask because some TFGs, might say that unless it's painted as that character it's not that character a la WYSIWYG
No so long as the model has the armaments they need and can't be mistake for some one else that's fine.

3)Can you have more than one of a special character in an army? Like, can I have 2 Danath Lysanders?
Depends 100% of special character come with the "unique" rule so you can only take one. That does not mean that GW will do this for every one.

4) If a special character dies does the army lose any special rules it conveys to them?
If said rule say "while alive every one X" then yes. Those that don't won't.

Also a semi-unrelated question. If I have a unit of terminators and a captain, and the captain is not in terminator armour, can the captain make a sweeping advance alone? also if there are models with different initiative values do they make separate sweeping advances, use the highest initiative or the lowest initiative?
... 50/50 personally i think since he can't leave the terminators he can't sweeping advance. You use the majority Initiative (or highest if there is none)

spartanghost wrote:
Also a semi-unrelated question. If I have a unit of terminators and a captain, and the captain is not in terminator armour, can the cvaptain make a sweeping advance alone? also if there are models with different initiative values do they make separate sweeping advances, use the highest initiative or the lowest initiative?

Once joined, a captain has to stick with the unit until he leaves. So No, he can't advance alone if he was attached to the unit.
On the Ini, have to go with Tri, its using majority of Initiative value or highest value if no majority can be found.

But sweeping advance with Termies? How about page 102/ terminator armor = no sweeping advance?

I know that ICs are no longer attached to the squad while in combat, and immediately after combat rejoin (hence why they must be in b2b to attack), but I don't know if that's before or after you could SA. Read the section on ICs and Assaults and you should be able to figure it out.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I know that ICs are no longer attached to the squad while in combat,

That's not actually quite right.

An IC joined to a unit in close combat is treated as a separate unit for resolving attacks. But he is still joined to the unit.

insaniak wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I know that ICs are no longer attached to the squad while in combat,

That's not actually quite right.

An IC joined to a unit in close combat is treated as a separate unit for resolving attacks. But he is still joined to the unit.

And thus cannot sweeping advance if attached to termies

Sweeping advance is no longer movement and hasn't been since 3rd edition. Even the SW faq that forbids it to normal units lead by a termie doesn't say why - then again, it's a straight copy-paste from the 3rd edition FAQ. ;-)

One will have to figure out that SA is performed by units, not individual models. Then even one model disallowed it will prevent it for all - not because of movement but because SA doesn't mention being possible if only part of the unit can do it.

Thanks for the answers. Also, is it cvommon place to "rename" SCs? for instance i want to have Shrike leading my Paladins, but he's obviously not one. on the flip side do people often have SCs painted in their normal colours and be "on loan" to thier custom chapter? I just want my army to look good and make sense fluff-wise (I know my earlier attempts at a background for them havn't been very good in terms of fluff but i'm working on it).

A thought on the sweeping advance thing: If i intended to have a captain and terminators assault a unit, would i be able to detach the captain from the unit, but still move them the same and assault? i don't remember reading anythhing about ICs having to move away from a unit after detaching. basically i'm thinking it would work this way:

pre-SM turn: Captain & Termies are <12 inches from target unit (Ork Boyz let's say)

movement: captain detaches, but termies and captain move 6" towards the boyz.

shooting: They both fire storm bolters/pistols, killing a couple boyz but the unit survives.

Assault: Captain and Terminators both simultaneously assault the boyz. Boyz lose and fail morale check, Captain alone performs sweeping advance.

spartanghost wrote:pre-SM turn: Captain & Termies are <12 inches from target unit (Ork Boyz let's say)

movement: captain detaches, but termies and captain move 6" towards the boyz.

shooting: They both fire storm bolters/pistols, killing a couple boyz but the unit survives.

Assault: Captain and Terminators both simultaneously assault the boyz. Boyz lose and fail morale check, Captain alone performs sweeping advance.

That should work IIRC.

As for the special Characters, it is generally accepted that you paint them to match your army, and just point out "This is Captain Jimbob Clawsyourface, he is using Shrikes rules m'kay?"

Gwar! wrote:

spartanghost wrote:pre-SM turn: Captain & Termies are <12 inches from target unit (Ork Boyz let's say)

movement: captain detaches, but termies and captain move 6" towards the boyz.

shooting: They both fire storm bolters/pistols, killing a couple boyz but the unit survives.

Assault: Captain and Terminators both simultaneously assault the boyz. Boyz lose and fail morale check, Captain alone performs sweeping advance.

That should work IIRC.

Yeah, that should work. Your cap'n would then be on his own in the enemies turn, so the enemy could target the cap'n with shooting.

spartanghost wrote:Thanks for the answers. Also, is it cvommon place to "rename" SCs? for instance i want to have Shrike leading my Paladins, but he's obviously not one. on the flip side do people often have SCs painted in their normal colours and be "on loan" to thier custom chapter? I just want my army to look good and make sense fluff-wise (I know my earlier attempts at a background for them havn't been very good in terms of fluff but i'm working on it).

A thought on the sweeping advance thing: If i intended to have a captain and terminators assault a unit, would i be able to detach the captain from the unit, but still move them the same and assault? i don't remember reading anythhing about ICs having to move away from a unit after detaching. basically i'm thinking it would work this way:

pre-SM turn: Captain & Termies are <12 inches from target unit (Ork Boyz let's say)

movement: captain detaches, but termies and captain move 6" towards the boyz.

shooting: They both fire storm bolters/pistols, killing a couple boyz but the unit survives.

Assault: Captain and Terminators both simultaneously assault the boyz. Boyz lose and fail morale check, Captain alone performs sweeping advance.

Just as long as the Captian clearly broke away in the previous movement phase, this works just fine.

Also iirc the Captian and the terminators wounds both count because they become one unit for the purpose of who won/lost assault.

cool. I think i'll use that tactic next time i have the chance. Now i have to think of something to rename Shrike. Captain Falcon maybe?

firstly, good thread.

1) Yes. TAG TEAM!

2)You can paint you're charachters howver the hell you want. (mabye they are training a sucessor chapter)

3) No, no more than one of that Special Character.

4) Wouldn't really know. I don't think so.

The only SM character I can think of that would cause the army to lose special rules when he died would be Sicarius and his Rites of Battle (equivalent, I can't remember if it's called that or not as I do not have my 'dex at work).

The other questions are answered in the 'dex itself on the page just before the photos section (last paragraph, if memory serves), just in case you need "proof" to show your opponents if/when the give you gruff.

KaloranSLC wrote:The only SM character I can think of that would cause the army to lose special rules when he died would be Sicarius

And Marneus.

you dont even have to use the character's model.

For instance my friend uses a Techmarine with an editted servo harness to represent Pedro.

He attached two stormbolters to the servo harness to represent fist of Dorn, cut of the arm and added a power fist and just did some other small scale conversions. This is because he uses an Iron hands army using the Vanilla codex and wanted a properly Mechanical looking leader.

Hmm Maybe i'll do that for my Master of the Forge... (convert it that is)

spartanghost wrote:Thanks for the answers. Also, is it cvommon place to "rename" SCs?

I know that at least in the DA codex, it explicitly says that the SCs would represent an important figure in successor chapters, and not literally be Azrael or Belial.

ah nice. I guess Captain Shrike can be Lieutenant Falcon after all!

spartanghost wrote:ah nice. I guess Captain Shrike can be Lieutenant Falcon after all!

FALCON PUNCH!

falcon REND actually :-P