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How unique do my Crisis suits need to be to spread my wounds out and allocate them any way i like? is it as simple as say, giving one suit a BK and another suit a HW-Blacksun Filter, or do i have to go as far as different wepon configurations? Also, what about drones? How do they effect the figures with multiple wounds rules?

They have to be non identical. Page 25 lists what they must be different in. In short, so long as even 1 bit of wargear is different, they count as a complex unit. Drones do not count however, as they are separate models. Drone Controllers do however, so Suit A with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller is the same as Suit B with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller, even if they buy different drones.

Sorry, it's a little late for me here. I didn't pick up on any definate "line" when reading pages 25 and 26. so here's how i am thinking of setting up my unit:

Shas'o with MP PR HWDC HWMT Stimulant Injector Positional Relay and 1 Shield Drone
Bodyguard 1 with MP PR Bonding Knife HWDC HWMT Targetting Array and 1 Shield Drone
Bodyguard 2 with MP PR HWDC HWMT Targetting Array and 1 Shield Drone

Technically they'd be unique, right, but are they unique enough?

So the only difference between Suit 1 and Suit 2 is the Bonding Knife, correct?

yes

Then yes, according to page 25, which states:

The rules for taking saving throws and removing casualties, as presented so far, assume that all the models in the target unit are identical in gaming terms. By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear.

So yes, each suit has different wargear, so count as different when it comes to rolling saves.

And i can spread wounds out instead of removing whole models, right?

Thanks for your help btw

Mecha73 wrote:And i can spread wounds out instead of removing whole models, right?

Thanks for your help btw

No problem. As for the wound allocation, it is not as simple as that. How it works is this:

Your 3 suits get hit and suffers 4 wounds.
You allocate 1 to the Shas'O, 1 to the Suit with the Knife, and 2 to the one with no knife.
You roll the Shas'O save, and pass them all
You roll the Knife Suit Save, and fail, losing 1 wound
You roll both the Non Knife Suit, Fail 1 and pass one.

If the suits were identical, you would have lost a model, because the group failed 2 saves. Because they are a complex unit, each group loses 1 wound each, in effect "spreading" the wounds.

Gwar! wrote:

Mecha73 wrote:And i can spread wounds out instead of removing whole models, right?

Thanks for your help btw

No problem. As for the wound allocation, it is not as simple as that. How it works is this:

Your 3 suits get hit and suffers 4 wounds.
You allocate 1 to the Shas'O, 1 to the Suit with the Knife, and 2 to the one with no knife.
You roll the Shas'O save, and pass them all
You roll the Knife Suit Save, and fail, losing 1 wound
You roll both the Non Knife Suit, Fail 1 and pass one.

If the suits were identical, you would have lost a model, because the group failed 2 saves. Because they are a complex unit, each group loses 1 wound each, in effect "spreading" the wounds.

Awsome, that's the scenario i was hoping for. Thanks for all your help.

It's why I disagree with people using shaso and instead say you should take 2 commanders and 2 squads of body guards w/ 1 gun drone each as it gives you 18 individual wounds to deal with adding in invulnerables from shield drones ; armour saves ; etc.. It's still expensive but ultimately cheaper and actually more survivable as you have 2 units instead of one. It's expensive as hell though. You can usually keep it to 50 to 60 points a model though.

Gwar! wrote:They have to be non identical. Page 25 lists what they must be different in. In short, so long as even 1 bit of wargear is different, they count as a complex unit. Drones do not count however, as they are separate models. Drone Controllers do however, so Suit A with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller is the same as Suit B with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller, even if they buy different drones.

Ahh but the 'Drone Controller' under battlesuit support systems & 'Hardwired Drone Controller' under battlesuit wargear are two different pieces of wargear that allow the same thing.

Razerous wrote:

Gwar! wrote:They have to be non identical. Page 25 lists what they must be different in. In short, so long as even 1 bit of wargear is different, they count as a complex unit. Drones do not count however, as they are separate models. Drone Controllers do however, so Suit A with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller is the same as Suit B with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller, even if they buy different drones.

Ahh but the 'Drone Controller' under battlesuit support systems & 'Hardwired Drone Controller' under battlesuit wargear are two different pieces of wargear that allow the same thing.

Yeah I know that, but I said just Drone Controllers. If Suit A had a Shield gen and Twin Linked Plasma, and Suit B had Twin Linked Plasma , Shield Gen and a HW Drone Controller, they would not be the same

Gwar! wrote:They have to be non identical. Page 25 lists what they must be different in. In short, so long as even 1 bit of wargear is different, they count as a complex unit. Drones do not count however, as they are separate models. Drone Controllers do however, so Suit A with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller is the same as Suit B with Two Missile Pods and a Drone Controller, even if they buy different drones.

I disagree with Gwar that drones don't differentiate the suits that own them, Gun Drones, Shield Drones, and Marker Drones despite appearing on the table as models are still wargear, they are listed in the armoury in a list entitled "Battlesuit Wargear" and the drone controller says "A model with a drone controller must take one or two Gun, Marker, or Shield Drones, in any combination from the wargear list." which shows not only that the model is the owner of the drones but also further illustrates they are wargear.

Most significant is the fact that if someone with a drone controller dies, thier drone's go with them, which means battlesuit A with a single gun drone and battlesuit B with a single shield drone are VERY different in terms of how thier death would impact the game.

Drunkspleen wrote:Most significant is the fact that if someone with a drone controller dies, thier drone's go with them, which means battlesuit A with a single gun drone and battlesuit B with a single shield drone are VERY different in terms of how thier death would impact the game.

This is actually insignificant. The rules on page 25 State:
The rules for taking saving throws and removing casualties, as presented so far, assume that all the models in the target unit are identical in gaming terms. By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear.

Now, Suit A has Twin Linked Missile Pods and a Drone Controller.
Suit B has Twin Linked Missile Pods and a Drone Controller.

They are not the same because.....

The rules for complex units do not say "Oh and if you buy different drones they are different kthnk", the fact is, the Drone Controller is a Drone Controller, plain and simple, no matter what drones you take.

I'm not going to seek to convert you to my way of thinking Gwar, I've tried before and we disagree on a fundamental aspect of the rules discussion at hand.

While I perhaps highlighted the wrong section my argument was not based entirely on the fact that killing the controller removes the drones, there is also my opinion that they clearly are wargear belonging to the suits, which you choose to not agree with. Given what you believe to be true, your assessment of the situation is accurate, however since I believe the RAW supports an alternate view my conclusions of the functionality of these rules differ to yours.

Essentially what I'm saying is that I don't intend to have an argument that I know will go nowhere and rather intended to put my view out for others who are yet to decide how they feel on the matter to assess both sides before making a decision.

While you are correct that by RAW the fact a drone dies with it's controller is not enough to say it's fits the criteria for not being identical in gaming terms, I still think it's something worth considering in making a decision on the rules in question. Consider it the circumstantial evidence to go with the DNA match of the rest of my case.