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2009/06/23 08:15:19
Subject: Accurate?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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A question for all our Canadians out there... is this an accurate description of your healthcare system?
From Sohmer's blog on his website: http://www.licd.com/
Sohmer wrote:
In 2007, documentary director Michael Moore released his latest film, entitled "Sicko". The premise of the doc was to compare the American health care industry to other nations, including Canada.
As a proud Canadian myself (eh?), I was forced to watch in disbelief as Moore painted the Canadian health care system as something other countries should aspire to. At several points during this segment, I kept waiting for a Unicorn to come out into the waiting room to announce that Cancer had been cured, and a free vaccine was now available to all.
At no cost, of course.
I feel the need to set a few things straight, and also to point my fellow countrymen to a site where they may be actually able to help affect some change.
The bottom line to the Canadian Health Care system is this: You get what you pay for.
With that in mind, this is the reality: It is absolutely impossible to get yourself a family doctor. A 5 hour wait in the Emergency Waiting Room is considered a brief stay. Government run means government bureaucracy. You will still pay for certain things, any thing that the government can cut out to trim their budget (Ie, a doctor's note for school to explain why you missed class can cost you 10$). Need any kind of specific test or scan? You'll get it, within 6 months to 2 years.
The reason I bring this all up today, is that the situation in my province of Quebec is ridiculously out of control, and quickly getting worse. Any of our readers who are Canadian, or better yet from Quebec, I would urge you to follow this link, read about the issues and get involved.
Simply because something's always been done a certain way, doesn't mean it's right.
- Because I can.
Quote of the Day
"so, working for the government, you probably have to use public transportation?
-Michael Moore, Sicko (2007)
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/06/23 10:08:47
Subject: Re:Accurate?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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One of the complaints about Michael Moore is that he uses anecdotal evidence rather than looking at a bigger picture. It's a valid criticism. It's also what you and Sohmer have done there.
But note when the guy sees any kind of test or scan will take six months to two years... now I'm not a Canadian but I've followed the debate on socialised medicine for a while, and I know that guy is talking out his arse. He's talking out his arse because he doesn't bother to define what a scan or a test actually is, then pulls a figure out of nowhere. Here's an interesting look at waiting lists, http://www.amsa.org/studytours/WaitingTimes_primer.pdf. It gives a lot of background into the causes of the wildly differing and frequently outrageous waiting list figures that get thrown around.
But this is the big point; "A "waiting list" is a list that patients are enrolled in once they opt to pursue an elective procedure, assuming that they cannot get this procedure performed immediately. In Canada, waiting lists do NOT exist for emergency procedures. It is a myth that Canadians with serious, life-threatening illnesses are enrolled on a waiting list before they can receive life-saving therapies."
When you look at the direct studies done (direct responses given by patients and physicians, not data farmed off of incomplete and inconsistent hospital databases where as many as 30% of the 'patients' are not actually awaiting the elected procedure) then the average waiting time for elective surgery is between 4 and 9 weeks. Which is not very outrageous at all.
Now, the US is better at this. In fact, the US is best system in the world if you look at waiting times before elective surgery. This makes sense, you spend the most money on healthcare (by a long way), your system is geared towards profit over priority (so non-elective surgery will receive considerably more interest than elsewhere) and the demand on the system is cut down rather neatly by the number of people who are uninsured or underinsured, and so don't ever appear on waiting lists.
But then you have to ask yourself if the waiting time for non-elective surgery should really be the key determinant in a healthcare system. Surely the quality of care and the number of people that can access it should matter more. Surely it should matter that in Canada people don't go bankrupt because they got cancer and there was a technicality on their healthcare application.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/23 10:11:56
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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2009/06/23 11:17:39
Subject: Accurate?
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[DCM]
.. .-.. .-.. ..- -- .. -. .- - ..
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I saw a documentary on the canadian medical system last year and it siad that the quickets way to get a CT scan (in a non emergency situation) was to be a cat or dog because vets were running them after hours and they could be done same day, whereas humans had several weeks waiting time.
In Queensland (Australia) Public hospitals the human radiotherapy suites were being used for dogs and cats with cancer after hours so the hospitals could make more money until the media found out...
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2009/06/23 21:39:24
Subject: Accurate?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Well so far I've heard from two Australians.... can I get the opinions of somebody who actually has to USE the Canadian healthcare system?
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/06/23 21:59:35
Subject: Accurate?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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You should try the British health service, took them nearly 3 years for them to do my step dad's knee operation.
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2009/06/23 22:14:52
Subject: Accurate?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Lord Bingo wrote:You should try the British health service, took them nearly 3 years for them to do my step dad's knee operation.
Honestly I don't want to try ANY health service, if that's ok with you. 
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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