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Hey all. Recently retooled my list, which had previously been footslogging to a sort of more mechanized type list.

Farseer - 128
Spirit Stones, Eldritch Storm, Fortune, Singing Spear

Harlequin Troupe - 178
Shadowseer, Troupe Master, Power Sword, Kiss x5

Fire Prism - 140
Holo Fields

Dire Avengers x9 140
Exarch, Dual cats, Bladestorm
Wave Serpent - 145
Bright lances, spirit stones

Dire Avengers x 9 140
Exarch, Dual Cats, Bladestorm
Wave Serpent - 140
Scatter Laser, Spirit Stones

996

This variant I am hoping will be able to deal with larger more sparsely terrained boards, as well as being able to get up in the face of my opponent, particularly gunline IG. Comments and Criticism welcome. Thanks in advance.

I would probably trade out Eldritch Storm for Doom. Otherwise the list looks pretty solid to me. Possibly consider EMLs on your Serpents and a transport for the Harlies otherwise they will just get left backfield.

Interesting that you're playing on boards with less terrain than normal, particularly vs. IG... If you're wanting to reach out and touch your opponent, you might want to swap the harlies for Shadowstrike Scorpions...

I like the idea of Eldritch Storm, it's a nice AoE that's gauged to take out low T hordes - like IG. Doom's nice with Avengers, really nice, but I wouldn't rule out Mind War to pinpoint the Guard's command. Runes of Witnessing wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

I'd drop the brightlances from your serpent - it's nice to have a bit of extra anti-armor, but let your Fire Prism do that job with better BS.

I second the EML since you can fire it defensively using the plasma setting and even if you scatter, you're likely to hit gunlines. If you need it, you can still pull a S8 krak shot against armor and IC's.

Gavin Thorne wrote:I'd drop the brightlances from your serpent - it's nice to have a bit of extra anti-armor, but let your Fire Prism do that job with better BS.

Fire Prism BS doesn't matter (much) since it always scatters now. Drives me nuts that my Fire Prisms should be hitting 2/3 of the time and now miss 2/3 of the time. Yes, scattering 4" less is nice, but rolling a 6+ on 2d6 isn't too difficult and makes even the large blast shot useless.

Bright lances on wave serpents, especially against IG, are often wasted, though. Serpents have plenty of mobility to take shots at side armor which is usually 12 or less (obvious exceptions, of course). Even beyond that, lances are a fair bit more expensive than the TL-EMLs.

I had the same misgiving about the Prism at first Kirbinator. However I saw the math on it in another post recently, and after the 4" reduction and accounting for the 33% chance to Hit, it scatters 3" or less like 72% of the time, which ain't too shabby.

As for switching the weapon from a BL to a EML, I had considered it, and still am. My issue so far has been facing the front armor, but I didnt have any Serpents in my army, and my Fire Prism wasn't exactly charging ahead each turn. I think the BL was 45 points and the EML was 25, so that would be 20 points I could apply elsewhere.

What about the Scatter Laser on the second WS? I took it to add in a little more anti horde, and I hope the the 4 TL str 6 shots will have a better chance of doing something overall to low armor transport vehicles than a single TL str 8 krak missile. Am I wrong in that assumption?

Also, I am pretty undecided as to what to give the farseer. Especially because I am unsure where to put him. I could put him in a serpent, in which case I think Eldritch storm could be pretty useful, not just against hordes, but also to (hopefully) spin vehicles around and get at that tasty rear armor.

Or I could put him on foot and have him roll with the harlies, in which case fortune could increase their survivability, and when they get in to assault range he could be dooming units. However, they lose some things like Flip Belts if I do that.

You need to put runes on the farseer, especially if you are going to be seeing IG. The psycher squad of the IG is cheap and very very nasty unless you have runes warding to shut them down.

Since you are spirit stones and two powers, you should also strongly consider giving him runes of witnessing. I posted under the tactics section a break down of the math, the runes of witnessing give a major jump to making your power tests while only very slightly increasing the chance of causing a wond on your farseer.


You might drop one BL and keep one, that would give you a bit of AT flexibility still.


Sliggoth

heres the math from another thread


HIT = 44,44%
1" scatter = 7,41%
2" scatter = 9,26%
3" scatter = 11,11%
4" scatter = 9,26%
5" scatter = 7,41%
6" scatter = 5,56%
7" scatter = 3,70%
8" scatter = 1,85%

Thanks for posting the math on that Combo.

As for the runes of witnessing, I have yet to fail a psychic test with my farseer after 5 or 6 games. I got double 1's once, but have not got an 11 or 12 as of yet. I know that its definitely possible, and losing the ability to cast a power could change things in a major way during a game, but not sure I am ready to spring for them quite yet. I do agree that Runes of Warding might be a very worthy thing to take, I will have to consider popping that on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another quick question. I was sort of toying with the idea of putting a Shuriken cannon on one of the Wave Serpents. The 3 extra str 6 shots could be very nice in 2 situations I think. One is if I put it with the Scatter Laser I could fire 7 str 6 ap 5 shots, which could be nice for churning up transports or a standing group of troops. However, it might be overkill for the transports, and I could only move 6 inches a turn.

The other possibility is combining it with the EML, in which case I could move 12 inches and fire the cannon + plasma missile each turn. This would still be pretty decent against troops, and then I could still fire Krak Missiles against higher armor vehicles.

Is this worth the extra 10 pts? Or am I better off just sticking with the TL shuriken catapults.

I'd go with Scatterlasers over Shuris. The extra range and extra shot are going to be worth it. However, I'd take EML over Scatterlasers...

I'm sorry. I guess I wasnt clear enough on that. I wasn't thinking of taking TL shuri cannons instead of scatter or EML. I was thinking of taking TL SL or TL EML as my main weapon, and THEN upgrading the TL shuriken catapult to a single Shuriken Cannon for an additional 10 points.

Doomenbot dont bother just keep the basic catapults. The only time you should upgrade the catapults to catapult is if you have an eml and want to shoot it as plasma shots, then it counts as a defencive weapon.

Right. I had already been leaning toward thinking its only worth it on a WS with the EML to fire defensively. That being said, I am still not sure if its worth it in this particular list. Anybody think it is/isn't worth it in this list and can explain to me why?

It seems like the EML is worth it over the bright lance in many ways. The 20 points per is nice. The ability to blast or fire the armor/tank piercer is nice. Couple that with the defensive fire and more range I'd say all things considered I'd take the EML over the BL.

Basically the BL is only better at killing:
a. 2+ save guys
b. armor 13+ tanks

Based on the rarity of those, especially in 1000 points I think the EML is the choice. 40 points in nice to be able to invest in the Farseer and other DA's. In 1500 games I still think you'll need Fire Dragons. Couple them with the Avi and another WS (maybe that one with the BL) should be enough anti-armor. I think for now though the EML is better in too many situations to make a good case not to take it.

I'd drop the footslogging element (Harlies) as it gives your opponent a focus and add another Fire Prism.

Well, the Harlies are usually safe from enemy fire due to Veil of Tears. In most games I don't lose more than 1 to ranged fire. My problem with droppin gthem to grab another FP is that I would have no countercharge units left over. As much as I would like to hope that I never have to engage in closecombat by dancing around the enemy, I don't know how completely I can bank on never being forced into it, particularly with the prevalence of objective games these days.

I would leave out the kisses, because rending is just not as good anymore. Use those points to get another harlequin.

That I can definitely see being true. I was mainly keeping it in to help punch through termie armor and for Monstrous Creatures. However, it hasn't seemed to be too helpful so far. And with a lot of MC at T of 6 they are only getting wounded on 6's anyway.

Harlequins come with kisses, the end. Otherwise they're just expensive ways to spam S4 attacks on the charge. If you're not taking Harlequins for rending purposes you're better off with Banshees in a serpent and spirit stones/star engines. Fortune the serpent at the start of the round, then 36" boost into enemy territory, especially if you can keep back armor safe from assaults. The serpent has a good enough chance to survive and your Banshees can jump out, fleet, and murder something.

The other reason to take Harlequins with Kisses is because you need a 6 to glance rear armor, but due to rending will turn it automatically into a penetrating hit. Much more worthwhile.

The only thing is you might want to keep a Farseer nearby for Doom support, it makes them much more lethal. Any failed wound (50% of all hits against T4s) are more chances to rend. Further, a squad of Harleys with Doom can butcher medium to small hordes of orks or IG due to volume of attacks, then Hit and Run out of the situation if anything is left alive if need be.

Hmm. I can see some merits to both sides. The kisses are only an additional 20 points for the whole squad in any case, and I have noticed that for the most part I am sending them after doomed targets. Maybe I will hold off on removing them until I have played some more games with them and gotten a better judge of what they are worth.

I have tried out the Shuriken Cannons on the Wave Serpent, and have gotten some very mixed results so far. But I think they are probably worth it for 10 pts because if I can get to the back armor on a lot of vehicles, it has a decent chance of causing some trouble for them. Although the lack of TL really hurts with that BS 3.

1000pt Eldar list
HQ:
Farseer = 55pts
Fortune = 30pts
Mind war = 20pts

Troops:

3 guardian jetbikes = 66pts
1 shurikian cannon = 10pts

3 guardian jetbikes = 66pts
1 shurikian cannon = 10pts3

3 guardian jetbikes = 66pts
1 shurikian cannon = 10pts

Elites:

7 fire dragons = 112pts
Exarch = 12pts
Breath flamer = free
Crack shot = 5pts

Wave serpent = 90pts
Twin-linked scatter lasers = 25pts

Heavy support:

Wraithlord = 90pts
Scatter laser = 20pts
Starcannon = 30pts

Wraithlord = 90pts
Scatter laser = 20pts
Starcannon = 30pts

Wraithlord = 90pts
Scatter laser = 20pts
Starcannon = 30pts

Total = 997pts

the one thing you should be aware of is that if you are playing objectives it is sometimes a good idea to keep the jetbikes in reserve untill later on in the game were they can then turbo boost to the objectives. but apart from that the raithlords and firedragons should kill everything.

May I just ask how many Eldar wapons can penetrate a Monolith? Monoliths are very popular in Necron armies.

phantommaster wrote:May I just ask how many Eldar wapons can penetrate a Monolith? Monoliths are very popular in Necron armies.

Off the top of my head... Falcon Pulse Laser? It's a Lascannon last I checked, S9 AP2. Wraithguard's cannon on a 6, or was that a glancing hit? Also Eldar D-Cannon on a 5+ if memory serves correctly...

Falcon is a str8, its the prism that is a str9 ap2. Unless you use two prisms and link their fire, then they combine for one str10 ap1 TL blast. A pair of prisms makes for an excellent monolith killing team.

Wraithguard and the heavy support d cannon penetrate on a 5-6 after they hit, glance on a 3-4. Dont expect to see (m)any d cannon batteries tho. A unit of wraithguard in a serpent tho will give a world of hurt to a monolith.


Sliggoth

Bright lances also because of the Lance Rule.

Monoliths have that living metal rule so they are immune to the lance effect. BL is just a regular str8 ap2 weapon against an av 14 monolith.


Sliggoth

A squad of swooping hawks with haywire grenades could get lucky.

Farseer + Warlock jetbikes with witchblades (not singing spears). A squad of 6 Warlocks and 1 Farseer is something like 21 S9 attacks in melee. That'll pop a monolith.

Ohhh yeah. Its been so long since I played crons that I forgot about that. Is there any other weapon besides BL/DL that is affected by that?

Also, Singing spears count as S9 against vehicles too. You lose the bonus attack, but you get to throw at them instead, so it about evens out I think.

Well, I usually ignore the Monolith.
Singing spears and ramming attacks are rather efficient to inflict penetrating hits.
A Serpent ramming with distance 24'' has S 10.

So quite a few, I would suggest getting just one of these in a 1000pt list, (so long as you're playing against 'crons) because monoliths are very popular at 800pts and over.

Wraithlords can also get the job done, with S 10.