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This is my first shot at a Space Marine army in a long time (2nd Edition being the last) any comments or recommendations would be appreciated.

HQ
Captain (145pts)
- Artificer Armour, Digital Weapons, Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword.

Command Squad (155pts)
- Champion, Apothacary, Standard, Meltagun, Bolter.

Razorback Transport (105pts)
- Lascannons, storm bolter, extra armour, dozerblade.

Chaplain (145pts)
- Terminator armour, digital weapons, melta bombs, storm bolter.

ELITE
Terminator Squad (240pts) w/ Dedicated Crusader (275pts)
- Assault Cannon, Chainfists (x2), multi-melta (on the crusader)

Dreadnaught (105pts)
- C.C.W. & Multi-Melta.

Sternguard Veterans (125pts) w/ Drop Pod (35pts)

TROOPS
10-Man Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod (170pts)
- Flamer & Missile Launcher

10-Man Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod (170pts)
- Flamer & Missile Launcher

5-Man Scout Squad w/ Sgt. Telion(155pts)
- Camo-Cloaks, Sniper Rifles.

FAST
6-Man Bike Squad (180pts)
- Sgt's Power Sword.

10-Man Assault Squad (225pts)
- Power Sword, Flamer (x2).

Land Speeder Typhoon (90pts)

HEAVY
Whirlwind (110pts)
- Storm Bolter, extra armour

Total points = 2500pts.

So any ideas on my list?

My only main comments are that it might be a touch light on troops and ways to deal with AV14. That and you have 2 DPs coming in on Turn 1, both with infantry in them (one being a 5 man squad). Unless you bring them in far, far away from your opponent, they're going to get shot into oblivion immediately. If you're going to use the SGV, I'd try to find points to beef up their numbers and give them some combi-weapons to use when they first DP in. That and the dreadnought could also use a DP if you can spare it, that way he doesn't have to slog so far. Just some generic ideas.

My first impression is that you are probably not going to have enough troops to win any objective missions as your 2 tac squads are all that yo ucan really use to contest.

LRC has no firing points, meaning your termis cannot fire out from there. Normally best is to deepstrike shooty terminators and transport assaulty ones. I'd switch that for an assault unit.

The WW does not need extra armor. If it is getting shot at and does not die outright, you'll just be waiting to shoot again anyways. Maybe use those points to buy a few combis for the sternguard.

That razorback is way to expensive for how fragile it is. I bet that thing explodes first turn every game since its a great target with your command in there.

Probably best to find a way to stick the command squad in another LR, maybe redeemer.

the typhoon covers a similar role to the WW, so maybe choose one or the other.

Okay so drop the razorback and find alternative transport to get them onto the battlefield.

I'm gonna swap out my shooty terminators for a squad of assault terminators in the LRC, what are peoples thoughts on Lightning Claws vs. Thunder Hammers? They both seem to have their advantages, plus do you get the +1A for having a pair of lightning claws?

And one last one at the moment, what would you recommend for anti-armour, I've been trying to decided - either a Predator Annihilator or a Devastator squad with lascannons and multi-meltas.

Lightning claws do get the +1 attack, so your termis get 3 base, 4 on the charge at I4 and can re-roll all failed 'to wound' rolls. The TH/SS combo gets you 2 attacks (3 on the charge) at I1 but they are S8 and the SS gives you a 2+/3++ save.

General concensus is that TH/SS is better as it gives you anti-tank/anti MC capability and makes the unit more survivable, although people do sometimes run a mixed unit to get the best of both worlds - personally I'd go all TH/SS.

As far as anti armour goes a dev squad with Las and MM is terrible! There are much cheaper ways of getting Lascannon on the field (tac squads) and at the sort of range they are effective (i.e. 48") you can't use your MM.

The best anti-armour in 5th ed is mobile - Attack bikes with MM are only 50pts and can turbo boost. Land Speeders with MM can deep strike (for rear armour shots) for only 60pts and can gain versatility with an underslung heavy flamer for anti infantry work. Dreadnoughts (with or without drop pods) can also take MM cheap and 10-man tac squads can get them free! (put these in a rhino and you can get the MM where its needed)

Preds do have there role but are generally best used as anti-horde (autocannon/HB for85pts) or when upgraded with Las take out transports well.

Save your dev squad for either 4xML or 4xHB.

Hope this helps!!

Okay so with CODEX and advice in hand I have rewritten my army list...

HQ
Captain
- Bolt pistol, power sword, artificer armour, digital weapons

Command Squad
- Standard, Champion, Apothacary, Meltagun, Bolter

Chaplain
- Terminator Armour w/ storm bolter, digital weapons


ELITE
Terminator Assault Squad w/ LRC
- 3 TH, 2LC, MM, Extra Armour

Ironclad Dreadnaught w/ DP
- Hurricane Bolter, chainfist, HK (x2)

TROOPS
10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Flamer, Missile Launcher

10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Meltagun, Missile Launcher

10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Meltagun, Lascannon

Scout Squad
- Sniper Rifles and Camo-Cloaks

FAST
10-Man Assault Squad
- 2 Flamers, Lightning Claw

HEAVY
Land Raider (Transport for my command squad)
- Extra Armour

Predator
- AC, HB, Extra Armour

Predator
- AC, HB, Extra Armour

So I droped the razorback in favour of a LR providing a heavy transport as well as those twin-linked LCs for some anti-armour.
The termies have been replace with assault termies, with their LRC and will be accompanied by my chaplain.
I've switch my dreadnaught for an I.C.Dread, with a Hurricane and chainfist, and have kept it in a DP to get it up close and personal right from the beginning.
I've added an extra tacs, with a lascannon, and switchout its flamer and the one of my existing tacs with meltaguns, for a bit more punch.
I've dropped the bikes and land speeder completely, opting for a pair of preds (AC/HB) for crowd control.

So new questions are:
- should I be bothered with adding extra armour to my rhinos considering their primary role will be to get my tacs out onto the field then will probably be used to provide mobile cover?
- I have no doubts with assault capabilities with my assault squad and termies, but I am worried about the possibility of being out flanked, with a lack of fast moving troops?

Extra armor on rhinos is a waste because of how cheap the base rhino is. The 15 point investment to protect a 35point investment is just not worth it. LR's are a different story because they are assault vehicles, so even if you cannot shoot you always want to move so that you can assault out of it.

edit: I'm liking the list

Definately looks better IMO. I'm not exactly sold on the Ironclad configuration. You hit on rear armor so the only thing you would need the chainfist for is LRs. The seismic hammer is just too nice against normal vehicles because of the +1 to the damage chart. I'm also a fan of the Hurricane Bolter on the IC, but TBH, I haven't tried it out.

Digital weapons are nice, but I'd personally rather have a Relic Blade on the Captain instead. WS6 S6 I5 attacks are just too good.

TBH, I see you wrecking most horde armies, but MCs/vehicle spam will be a problem as you don't have very many PFs, Meltas, or AP2 weapons in general. I'd think about adding a PF to your Tacticals to give them some more flexibility.

Don't buy EA for Rhinos... EVER. The only thing the Rhino has going for it is that it's cheap, so don't mess with that. TBH, the only things that should have EA are LRs delivering a major punch or Vindicators because they draw so much fire. Anything else (and possibly even those) just isn't a good buy for 15pts.

If you're up against a outflanking army, just keep your LRs between your squishy bits and the sides and you'll be fine.

One last thing... I'd seriously consider dropping the Chappy and buying a couple of MM Attack Bikes instead to give you the ability to pop armor better. YMMV though. Overall, I think it will be a very solid list with just a few more tweaks.

Gornall wrote:Definately looks better IMO. I'm not exactly sold on the Ironclad configuration. You hit on rear armor so the only thing you would need the chainfist for is LRs. The seismic hammer is just too nice against normal vehicles because of the +1 to the damage chart. I'm also a fan of the Hurricane Bolter on the IC, but TBH, I haven't tried it out.

Digital weapons are nice, but I'd personally rather have a Relic Blade on the Captain instead. WS6 S6 I5 attacks are just too good.

TBH, I see you wrecking most horde armies, but MCs/vehicle spam will be a problem as you don't have very many PFs, Meltas, or AP2 weapons in general. I'd think about adding a PF to your Tacticals to give them some more flexibility.

Don't buy EA for Rhinos... EVER. The only thing the Rhino has going for it is that it's cheap, so don't mess with that. TBH, the only things that should have EA are LRs delivering a major punch or Vindicators because they draw so much fire. Anything else (and possibly even those) just isn't a good buy for 15pts.

If you're up against a outflanking army, just keep your LRs between your squishy bits and the sides and you'll be fine.

One last thing... I'd seriously consider dropping the Chappy and buying a couple of MM Attack Bikes instead to give you the ability to pop armor better. YMMV though. Overall, I think it will be a very solid list with just a few more tweaks.

Well this is the first complete yet still WIP of my space marine army list...

HQ
Captain
- Bolt pistol, relic blade, artificer armour, digital weapons

Command Squad
- Standard, Champion, Meltagun

ELITE
Terminator Assault Squad w/ LRC
- 3 TH, 2LC, MM, Extra Armour

Ironclad Dreadnaught w/ DP
- Hurricane Bolter, Seismic Hammer w/ Meltagun, HK (x2)

TROOPS
10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Flamer, Missile Launcher, PF

10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Meltagun, Missile Launcher, PF

10-Man Tactical squad w/ Rhino
- Meltagun, Lascannon

Scout Squad
- Sniper Rifles and Camo-Cloaks

FAST
10-Man Assault Squad
- 2 Flamers, Lightning Claw, combat shield

Attack Bike Squad
- 2 Attack Bikes w/ MM

HEAVY
Land Raider (Transport for my command squad)
- Extra Armour

Predator
- AC, HB

Predator
- AC, HB

I've gotten rid of the chaplain and bought two attack bikes with MMs, removed the EA from my preds and switchout my dreads chainfist for a seismic hammer.
I've also added PFs to two of my tacs and given my captain a relic blade and final gave my assault sgt a combat shield. sadly I see much more revision on the horizon, but this will be the list I'll be using for my gaming on the weekend, that gives me a day to get a couple of extra rhinos and the two attack bikes built and painted.

Looks like a pretty solid start to me! Have fun this weekend!