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I have a tendency to create lists that are very killpoint heavy... even with "elite" armies such as Marines. Since 3rd Ed, I have been a huge proponent of target saturation, such that the army has huge amounts of redundancy. This has the side effect of creating armies with gigantic KP totals. For tournament players, how many KP is too many?

I am toying with a 18KP 2500 Marine list to help my friends prepare for Ard Boyz. While I am sure it will be very effective in objective missions - I think that having 18KP will hurt a lot in KP missions.

18KPs at 2500 isn't too bad for marines.

I assume you're not running multiple raiders or veteran squads?

18KPs at 2500 isn't too bad for marines.

I assume you're not running multiple raiders or veteran squads?

ETA: I was thinking about this so I whipped out my full army list (7500pts) and worked out the average points per KP for marines - 148pts/KP (I have a bit of everything so this is a rough rule of thumb).

Without raiders or vets that drops to 126pts/KP.

On that basis, you're pretty much average (2500pts/148=16.9KPs) so you'll probably be at a distinct disadvantage against a stripped-to-the-bone tournament army.

That's not to bad for ard boyz. Considering most will be going mech and that most force org slots will be filled then 18 isn't to gross. The Tau i'm toying w/have 26....

Its not a question of how many KP an army has its how likely you are to give up the those KP's.

I've tried an Eldar army with 17Kps and which worked quite well. It was a Mech army so most of it was still alive at the end of the game.

If its more than the other guy, simply put.

My 1800pt DE army is 25 KP. I play for the tabled victory condition. Raiders are just very easy to kill. Simply put, in a KP mission, I have fun blowing crap up.

My infantry heavy guard list is 28. I can drop it down to under 20 though, not very smart tactically, but whatever works.

generally I try to have 1kp or less per 100 pts in lists where basic infantry cost less than 10 pts.

I try to have 1kp or less per 200pts in lsits where basic infantry cost 11-20pts.

The best way to gauge is, if your army is going to lose more kp a turn then you gain then your kps are bad

i try to go with as few as possible without messing with the effectiveness of the list.

My current ard boyz marine list is 13 normal KP and 26 in the second modified scenario.

Tri wrote:Its not a question of how many KP an army has its how likely you are to give up the those KP's.

Agreed.

As long as your KPs can earn KPs back, it's an effective choice.

Example.

a 65pt Necron heavy destroyer is one KP. It's also relativley capable of earning its KP back quickly. Depending on your 'Cron list, it might also be low priority, meaning it might make back more than its worth.

a 50 point 'Nid Ravener (Scything/rending/devourer) is NOT very capable of earning its KP back. It is a throw away KP that happens to be very low priority, meaning it's a 'freebie' for your opponent in a close game.

I think MSU still have a place in the current meta, I think these small units need to be AT/MC focused for it to be benificial.

who cares as long as you kill more than yours if you bring thunder hammer terminators they will put out alot of fire power to kill them, 1 squad of 10 is a pretty hard kill point, but if they ignore them they will destroy lots of things giving you kill points, I would just worry about a army that fights well, and if it does fight well then usually you will win the kp battle due to it kicking but even if you have alot of kill points. I dont like the kill point system I thought victory points was a much more balanced way to play it, I.E. terminators give same ammount of kill points that scouts do wich does not make sense. Some players may try to exploit this but those kind of lists wont win other senarios.

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