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Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

Hey All, I haven't been posting that many bat reps lately but hopefully I'll get back on track here.

Imperial Guard Army List
Company Command Squad w/ 4 melta guns, krak grenades, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer, multi-laser

Elites
Marlboro (Printers were down at work so I wasn't able to print my list, completely forgot I took Marlboro)

Troops
Platoon Command Squad, 4 flamers
Infantry Squad, lascannon, plasma gun, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer, multi-laser
Infantry Squad, lascannon, plasma gun, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer, multi-laser
Special Weapons Squad, 3 flamers
Special Weapons Squad, 3 flamers

Veterans Squad, 3 melta guns, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer, multi-laser
Veterans Squad, 3 melta guns, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer, multi-laser

Fast Attack
Vendetta
Vendetta
Vendetta

Heavy Support
Demolisher w/ hull heavy flamer
Demolisher w/ hull heavy flamer
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters

Tau
HQ
1 Shas'el w/ multi-tracker, missile pods, fusion gun
Ethereal

Troops
6 Fire Warriors
6 Fire Warriors
6 FIre Warriors, Devilfish w/ sms, disruption pods, multi-tracker

Fast Attack
6 Pathfinders, Devilfish w/ sms, disruption pods, multi-tracker
6 Pathfinders, Devilfish w/ sms, disruption pods, multi-tracker

Heavy Support
3 Broadsides, 4 shield drones, team leader, target lock,
3 Broadsides, 4 shield drones, team leader, target lock,
3 Broadsides, 4 shield drones, team leader, target lock,

Mission: Capture and control (objectives in own deployment zone)
Deployment: Pitched battle

Imperial Guard win the roll to go first and they take it!

Imperial Guard Deployment
There was a big hill going down one side and into the middile and a large building behind that. I chose to deploy in a corner that would shelter me completely from everything on the other side of the hill. I deployed line abreast with the whole army. Wanting more melta on my opponent I actually deploy my 2 vet squads in vendetta's, and the pcs.


I just finished getting the basic job done on my new valkryies and was itching to try them out.

Tau Deployment
The Tau were in a bit of a bind if they deployed on the other side of the mountain it would severly limit his shots and allow me to move up my chimera line unmolested so he chose to deploy everything opposite me on the hill.

Pre-game
Vendetta's all move up to get a little closer. (we made a mistake here, you are supposed to alternate scout moves, first time I've ever played with more than one). He roll's and fails to seize the initiative.


You can't see it but the 3rd valkryie is left of the leftmost devilfish next to a large building. Okay so let me see here, yep that's 9! broadsides over there.

Imperial Guard Turn #1
The Imperial war machine rumbles forwards a mighty 6 inch's and unleashes hell on the Tau. Okay well that was the image that went through my head but it didn't really pan out that way. The Command squad twin links both lascannon guard squads who rip a gun off the left most devilfish. The left most vendetta moves up 6 and deploys the pcs, they shoot 4 flamers into the very spread out tau line and manage to kill 3 from 2 different squads. One squad fails morale but only run's 3 inch's. 2 demolisher cannons, 9 tl lascannons, and 6 melta gun cannons shoot into Tau broadsides, peeling 3 drones from 2 different units. 15 multi-lasers shoot into pathfinders killing 2 models. The russ fires into the pathfinders, deviates and kills a couple of fire warriors. And the guard turn is done.

Tau Turn #1
The one tau squad rallies and hides behind a devilfish. The leftmost devilfish picks up the other trimmed down squad. And the tau movement is done. The pathfinders each mark a valkryie squad. 9 broadsides fire and when the dust settles 2 of the valkryies are destroyed as well as one of the demolishers. The center vendetta is immobilized and the Leman Russ Battle tanks is immobilized as well.


OMG the horror the sheer horror. Well the vendetta's didn't stay on their bases very long!

Imperial Guard Turn #2
Whats left of the imperial guard tank line rumble's forward another 6 inch's. The 2 vet squads move up closer to the broad sides. The command squad bid's on both lascannon squads but they fail to do anything this turn. 6 melta guns a demolisher cannon and 3 twin linked lascannons later not a single shield drone nor broadside was felled. Multi-lasers flash out and kill 2 pathfinders. The vets bravely charge into 2 of the broadside units. The ethereal's unit smacks down a vet squad and forces them to flee. The other broadsides win the combat but hold the guard locked.

Tau Turn #2
A devilfish pick's up the rightmost fire warriors and moves forwards. Pathfinders mark the surviving demolisher and the running vet squad. The burst cannon from the rightmost devilfish wrecks the chimera the special weapon squad was in. The other 2 sms the vet's down to a single vet w/ a melta gun. He destroyes the command squad chimera but everyone survives and miraculously the demolisher and vendetta survive (my opponent rolled his only miss the entire game with a broadside this turn, and rolled double 1's for penetration roles on the demolisher and vendetta). In hth the broadsides finish break and run down the vet squad. The etheral leaves the center broadside unit and falls back.


It's times like this that I wish I had bought a demo charge, a power fist, something, anything! If you notice the middle is suspiciously empty of vets all except that one lone melta gunner.

Imperial Guard Turn #3
The imperial guard tank line rumble's fowards another 6 inch's. The command squad hop's in an empty chimera for a ride. The special weapons squad on the right moves up into the area terrain. The command squad bids both of the lascannon squads who stun the left side devilfish and destroy the rightside devilfish pinning the fire warriors inside. The vendetta shoots into the center broadsides killing their last drone. My lone fleeing vet melta is still in range and downs a broadside (first dead broadside of the game). The demolisher peels off the last shield drone from the other squad.

Tau Turn #3
The last moving devilfish moves it's 2 man fire warrior squad behind the hill near his objective. The broadsides open up immobilizing the demolisher and finally downing the immobilized vendetta.



Imperial Guard Turn #4
My other special weapon squad in chimera is now stuck behind the immobilized demolisher so they tank shock the broadsides, who wreck the chimera. The special weapons team moves up and flames the fire warriors killing 3 out of 4. The company command squad rallies the lone melta gunner who hides behind a chimera and meltas another broadside, and bid's the leftmost broadside unit killing all 3 of them. The demolisher fires and stuns the devilfish behind the hill. A lascannon squad kills the last broadside, and the other squad removes the sms from the leftmost devilfish.

Tau Turn #4
The commander deep strikes in behind the leman russ in the backfield and blows up it up. The last unit of broadsides take's out another chimera. The lone fire warrior rapid fires into my special weapons squad killing 1 I fail my break check and flee. The left most devilfish moves up towards my objective and fires at my special weapons squad killing 2 and they fail their break check and run.

So if I had taken a picture at the end of this turn you would have seen the command squad near to where the leftmost broadside used to be.

Imperial Guard Turn #5
I bid a lascannon squad who open up on the suit commander, he fails the re-roll on his cover save and goes down with a las cannon to the head. The command squad moves up and destroyes the gun and immobilizes the devilfish. They then assault and destroy it with their krak grenades. The demolisher misses the devilfish and kills a couple of pathfinders.

Tau Turn #5
The broadside team kills the demolisher.


Thats right at the end of the game I still had 1 chimera left, whose the boss now!

The game ends in a tie!

This was a great game, it went back and forth and the destruction was awesome. Some lessons learned. Remember all of your dang units! Marlboro with a well placed demolition charge would have really helped me out, oh well. My multi-lasers did almost nothing the entire game. I think I would have been much better off rushing to get within heavy flamer range. Moving at cruising speed first turn, cruising speed second turn and then popping smoke would have put me right in his lines. This was my first time using the new valkryie models, they look awesome, and really make you feel the 3 dimensions of the game. But they are huge! I was more worried about trying to figure out how to deploy troops and keep them from falling over than making sure they were facing the right way. I should have had them all turned to focus on one broadside unit but because of the way I ended up facing them it forced me to split my fire between two different broadside units. If I had paid more attention to where my fire arcs were I might have been able to down a broadside unit on the first turn.

People have said it before, but I had to try it for myself, I just don't think special weapon squads are worth it. I will probably drop a chimera and just put two vet squads in the vendetta's and call it good. The Leman Russ was also fairly lack luster, maybe it's because it was immobilized first turn, but I may go back to dropping it for an eradicator.

I know a PBS would probably have just decimated this tau army and I think a competitve tournament list should probably always include one but I don't think you have to have one for fun games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/25 19:32:30


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Philadelphia

Great report!

Beautiful Valks by the way, just gorgeous!

Nice to see that 9x Broadsides are not quite as devastating as I feared, but sure nothing fun to face.

I always find that the goal is to get the chimeras into range ASAP, first two turn, move full speed and smoke as needed. If your Chimera Phalanx gets in range intact you should win every time.

Big Troy, The Samurai Gunslinger of South Philly

Dystopian Wars fleets: KoB, EotBS, Prussian, FSA
Firestorm Armada Fleets: Sorellian

Current 5th ed WL record
Salamander Marines 22-3(Local) GT Circuit 2-0-1
Mech Vet Guard 54-8-4 (local) 5-1 Ard Boyz


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




purging philadelphia

i think you would have had more luck outflanking the vendettas and forcing him to deploy more towards the center of the battlefield. IMO you should have crushed this list just based on the amound of instant-kill causing weapons you could bring on the broadsides. Lining up across from that kind of army does give one a healthy respect for what that many railguns can do to tanks though.

I know you made the comment about PBS and fun lists, but be honest was your opponent thinking about having a fun game by facing guard with 9 broadsides? no offence to your friend of course.

2013 Nova Open Tournament Champ-
2014 Las Vegas Open Best Tau Player/13th overall
2014 NOVA Open Second to One
2015 Las Vegas Open Best Tau Player/10th overall

I play:
all the 40k

http://www.teamstompinggrounds.com
https://www.facebook.com/teamsgvideos
http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo
@teamsgvideo

writer for http://www.torrentoffire.com/
 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

bigtmac68 wrote:Great report!

Beautiful Valks by the way, just gorgeous!

Nice to see that 9x Broadsides are not quite as devastating as I feared, but sure nothing fun to face.

I always find that the goal is to get the chimeras into range ASAP, first two turn, move full speed and smoke as needed. If your Chimera Phalanx gets in range intact you should win every time.


Thanks I had a lot of help from Augustus with the valkryies. I think he's writing up a little tutorial, we took a lot of in work pictures as we went through it. I have 3 more all done up like that that will eventually be used in my all airbourne list.

My original thought was that 5 multi-lasers, 2 heavy bolters, and a battle cannon, should over 2 turns be able to wipe out 2 6 man path finder squads, thus leaving me with the ability to get cover saves once my guard jumped out. But he was a mad man with his cover and armor saves, and my shooting just sucked. I also didn't want to run up too far because devilfish taking 5 shots into the sides of my chimera's was going to hurt. I agree tho that I probably should have ran them flat out.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Warmaster wrote:
bigtmac68 wrote:Great report!

Beautiful Valks by the way, just gorgeous!....


Thanks I had a lot of help from Augustus with the valkryies. I think he's writing up a little tutorial, we took a lot of in work pictures as we went through it. I have 3 more all done up like that that will eventually be used in my all airbourne list.....


Thanks a lot you guys, I did paint those,.. no, WE painted those (Warmaster and I), I just did the taped windows and the airbrush work on them, everything else was a team effort!

I am surprised that they didn't wipe out the Tau actually. 9 Railguns, oh my! That IG list gives my Eldar Fits!

Well done, nice images, good battle report!
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

thanatos67 wrote:i think you would have had more luck outflanking the vendettas and forcing him to deploy more towards the center of the battlefield. IMO you should have crushed this list just based on the amound of instant-kill causing weapons you could bring on the broadsides. Lining up across from that kind of army does give one a healthy respect for what that many railguns can do to tanks though.

I know you made the comment about PBS and fun lists, but be honest was your opponent thinking about having a fun game by facing guard with 9 broadsides? no offence to your friend of course.


With 4 shield drones per broadside unit. You have to take a ton of shots just to get through to the broadsides. My biggest mistake was not concentrating fire, if I would have done that I would have gotten one unit probably in the first round. If I had gone second I would have outflanked but going first I needed to lay in as many shots as possible before he started dropping tanks.

Well he didn't know he would be playing against guard and when I asked him if he wanted to play he actually told me he didn't think it would be a fun game and told me what was in his list. I told him I love a challenge and would be more than happy to play. We waited to see of anyone else was going to show up and no one did. Honestly I haven't been posting batreps that much because my mech guard has just been steam rolling people it's nice to get in a game against something that can give it a run for the money. A few things done differently or a bit better luck on my round 2 and I could have won the game. The interesting thing was that even though he was dropping my vehicles left and right there was just no way he was going to make it anywhere near my objective. He was basically fighting for the tie the entire game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Warmaster wrote:...my mech guard has just been steam rolling people...


Like me.

Twice with Necrons and Eldar Mech as well. The IG list is better than I thought at first I will admit.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




purging philadelphia

Its a paradigm shifting codex-same as tyranids were last edition and same as chaos deamons for fantasy. The entire game is going to focus more now on what can kill all those vehicles.

Mind you I'm not saying its bad at all, just different. We as gamers need these changes from time to time to keep the scene fresh with new and innovative army builds.

2013 Nova Open Tournament Champ-
2014 Las Vegas Open Best Tau Player/13th overall
2014 NOVA Open Second to One
2015 Las Vegas Open Best Tau Player/10th overall

I play:
all the 40k

http://www.teamstompinggrounds.com
https://www.facebook.com/teamsgvideos
http://www.twitch.tv/sgvideo
@teamsgvideo

writer for http://www.torrentoffire.com/
 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Philadelphia

thanatos67 wrote:Its a paradigm shifting codex-same as tyranids were last edition and same as chaos deamons for fantasy. The entire game is going to focus more now on what can kill all those vehicles.

Mind you I'm not saying its bad at all, just different. We as gamers need these changes from time to time to keep the scene fresh with new and innovative army builds.


Definitely, it has completely changed a metagame that had gotten a little stale since the ork codex. The marine book was cool but it did not have the ability to radically shift the metagame the way guard does. I love that guard has 4 maybe 5 VERY solid builds that all play very differently from each other and have dramatically different strengths and weaknesses.

Shooty Blob guyspam
Mech Vets
Air Cav
Chimera Spam
Armored Company

Most of the above have several different variations as well.

This differs from Marines that really only have 3 popular builds only one of which is top notch (Vulkan Mech)

I also like how it has forced Orks to change things up and has brought some forgotten lists back to prominence. All great stuff even if your not a guard player, the new guard dex has made your gaming life more interesting.

IMHO of course, I know some folks despise the new guard book.

Big Troy, The Samurai Gunslinger of South Philly

Dystopian Wars fleets: KoB, EotBS, Prussian, FSA
Firestorm Armada Fleets: Sorellian

Current 5th ed WL record
Salamander Marines 22-3(Local) GT Circuit 2-0-1
Mech Vet Guard 54-8-4 (local) 5-1 Ard Boyz


 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Nice batrep. Great looking army. Have you ever considered taking the following instead of the two SWT? Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, AC, Harker? I had pretty good success with him today, in a 1500 point tourney. However Pask in a Vanquisher with a H-LC let me down all three games, that might be due to my opponents, and not having much armor on their side.

   
Made in ph
Rough Rider with Boomstick






Great game! And I like the camo paint scheme of the skimmers...looking for something to contrast with the blue background of the valk.....so I may just copy your nice swirly scheme on mine too....

Mechanized is great, and not only with vets...even mech platoon can do well....although I love an infantry firebase so I combine that with a chimera assault force (at 1850) as well as a a skimmer or 2 (since I take rough riders)...and my HS are all armor 12 spam (basilisks, griffon,or hydras)...

At 1250 points I have 6-7 vehicles, at 1850 around 7-9 vehicles, should be around 90-100 models total....been doing well so far..5-0-0 with the new dex in games with games varying from 500-2000 pts...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/28 10:54:54




40K 5th ed W/L/D
65/4/6, 10/2/1, 10/3/0, 2/0/1, 0/1/1

40K 6th ed W/L/D
1/0/0

WHFB 8th ed WHFB
Empire: 12/3/2, Lizardmen: 16/3/2 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

bebe-paquito wrote:Nice batrep. Great looking army. Have you ever considered taking the following instead of the two SWT? Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, AC, Harker? I had pretty good success with him today, in a 1500 point tourney. However Pask in a Vanquisher with a H-LC let me down all three games, that might be due to my opponents, and not having much armor on their side.


Thanks, once I get all of my camo schemes to match up it should look great (I hope)! I am definitely not happy with the SWT and they are gone from the list I'm going to take this week. I've thought about taking a 3xgl, hb, harker and the 3x plasma but it violates my fluff . It's hard to tell in those pictures but all of my infantry are steel legion, so every squad is either transported in a valkryie or in a chimera to keep with fluff. I do think putting in some infiltrators would help out my list a lot but the harker squad is really expensive!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
freddieyu1 wrote:Great game! And I like the camo paint scheme of the skimmers...looking for something to contrast with the blue background of the valk.....so I may just copy your nice swirly scheme on mine too....

Mechanized is great, and not only with vets...even mech platoon can do well....although I love an infantry firebase so I combine that with a chimera assault force (at 1850) as well as a a skimmer or 2 (since I take rough riders)...and my HS are all armor 12 spam (basilisks, griffon,or hydras)...

At 1250 points I have 6-7 vehicles, at 1850 around 7-9 vehicles, should be around 90-100 models total....been doing well so far..5-0-0 with the new dex in games with games varying from 500-2000 pts...



Thanks, the camo pattern is a tiger stripe camo pattern. If you do a search for it on the web you can find lots of examples of how to do it. Yeah I don't like the all mech'vet concept. I like to have one platoon and some vets. I like a little bit of extra added long range. It also makes me feel like I'm not wasting a unit by sitting back and holding my objectives. When gw gets around to putting out a kit that can make medusa's and hydra's I'll probably put some in my list. But for now I just like my 2 demolishers a lot. It helps to give me more stuff that moves around, I definitely do not like to play static lists, which is why the dem's and vendetta's help out a lot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/06/29 17:14:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

Thanks so much Warmaster...

I've been waiting for that particular matchup to surface here... and with two pretty hard lists. Loved it!

Nothing wrong with 9 broadsides and 2 units of pathfinders in a take on all comers.

I notice that he spent 180 points on shield drones. That could have bought a 2 piranha unit with change to spare (He could use have used them to block off your demolisher for a couple crucial turns). Did you find that he needed 4 shield drones per unit to face down your shooting?

Also, beware of tau players that have large units of kroot. Your vendetta scout moves get blocked off by well spaced infiltrated kroot units, forcing the long range shoot-out. (I'm trying to bite back my devildog preference here...) If you are going to outflank, those same kroot can space out to block off a side. No tank shock to save you from that trick.

Thanks a ton for the great batrep. i took a lot away from it. Keep em coming!

Oh one more thing. I missed where he deployed his ethereal. Was it with a broadside unit or with the other pathfinder unit?

Please check out my current project blog

Feel free to PM me to talk about your list ideas....

The Sprue Posse Gaming Club 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Denver, CO

Shep wrote:Thanks so much Warmaster...

I've been waiting for that particular matchup to surface here... and with two pretty hard lists. Loved it!

Nothing wrong with 9 broadsides and 2 units of pathfinders in a take on all comers.



I've been theorizing with the Tau player that it's a viable build with the shift to all mech. The question is what happens when someone that is non-mech hits you. I think the tau are hurting then.

Shep wrote:

I notice that he spent 180 points on shield drones. That could have bought a 2 piranha unit with change to spare (He could use have used them to block off your demolisher for a couple crucial turns). Did you find that he needed 4 shield drones per unit to face down your shooting?



If he didn't have 4 shield drones per squad I would have wiped 2 squads off the table on turn 1. The shield drones give you order's immunity. What I mean is that you don't have any orders you can issue that will help you kill the squad. They aren't monstrous creatures and they aren't relying on cover. That's the main reason my CCS sat back at the beginning of the game and ordered around the lascannon squads. If someone didn't have that man shield drones I could have run up my chimera 12 and done re-roll cover saves on my 2 vet squads that deployed and really fried the unit. I was running my Tau with only 2 drones per squad I may have to go back and re-think that.

Shep wrote:

Also, beware of tau players that have large units of kroot. Your vendetta scout moves get blocked off by well spaced infiltrated kroot units, forcing the long range shoot-out. (I'm trying to bite back my devildog preference here...) If you are going to outflank, those same kroot can space out to block off a side. No tank shock to save you from that trick.



I talked to him before the game about putting some kroot in, in the future. I showed him the scout move protection and we discussed outflanking a bit. We shall see if he adds them in. 2 things to think about with the vendetta. It's still a skimmer, that means if you have kroot blocking a side you can just fly over them. It also gives you the ability to fly over an infiltrated kroot line. Not on the turn you made the scout move but in subsequent turns. It also gives you the ability to fly over a pirahna path block line as well.

I'm a big devil dog fan myself. But I have to give the valks/vend's there chance to impress me. A big issue I have with taking all the chimera's and devildogs is parking lot syndrome. When you put 12 vehicles on the table, especially in spearhead, your options are real limited and if someone can jump your line early enough and immobilize/stun your front runners it makes things really dicey. The valks help to thin out my table a bit and give me more room to maneuvre.

Shep wrote:

Thanks a ton for the great batrep. i took a lot away from it. Keep em coming!

Oh one more thing. I missed where he deployed his ethereal. Was it with a broadside unit or with the other pathfinder unit?


The etheral was deployed in the middle broadside unit. It's one of the reasons I charged vets into it on the 2nd turn. I was really hoping to put enough wounds on him to down him. He forgot to detach and move him and almost paid the price!

His sneaky tactic that didn't work is an interesting thing to note too. Since I got to go first on scout moves I was able to move directly in front of his broadsides. If he had had the kroot out he wouldn't have had this issue, or if he had won the role to move scouts first. His plan was to move the pathfinder devilfish up in front of the broadsides to try to completely obscure them the first turn and force you to down the fish. Then if you can't down the fish they move out of the way and open up. My only concern with that tactic would be if the skimmer get's stunned because they you are blocking your own line of site. The tricky part is that the broadside can see over a downed devilfish so if you wreck or immobilize the fish he can see over it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/29 22:21:23


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

Warmaster wrote:I've been theorizing with the Tau player that it's a viable build with the shift to all mech. The question is what happens when someone that is non-mech hits you. I think the tau are hurting then.


That's where the 20+ kroot and 10+ hounds come in.

Warmaster wrote:If he didn't have 4 shield drones per squad I would have wiped 2 squads off the table on turn 1. The shield drones give you order's immunity. What I mean is that you don't have any orders you can issue that will help you kill the squad. They aren't monstrous creatures and they aren't relying on cover. That's the main reason my CCS sat back at the beginning of the game and ordered around the lascannon squads. If someone didn't have that man shield drones I could have run up my chimera 12 and done re-roll cover saves on my 2 vet squads that deployed and really fried the unit. I was running my Tau with only 2 drones per squad I may have to go back and re-think that.


Again, this is the type of thing that a tau player doesn't have to worry about if he is properly kroot screened. You don't just roll up and drop off melta on his broadsides, or air cav drop melta either if he's properly covered. Shield drones matchup well against lascannons backed by FomT, but this is really the first time I've seen that even mentioned in part of a mechvet list. If you have more than 3 lascannon hits in a single unit and they are under a FomT, I'll gladly hand you my two gun drones. having 4 shield drones does mean the broadsides are easier to get to, but it also means he loses out on a full strong unit. I think you can protect broadisdes more indirectly. Gun drones' lower toughness is just as easy to wound with almost all long range weaponry. Their 2+ armor will almost never come up as you'll be allocating the long range instant death stuff onto them, and 4+ invulnerable, is rarely any different than a 4+ cover. I know tau can pull down cover saves and i know IG can too. But I think 2 gun drones and some deployment tactics can go a longer way.

Warmaster wrote:I talked to him before the game about putting some kroot in, in the future. I showed him the scout move protection and we discussed outflanking a bit. We shall see if he adds them in. 2 things to think about with the vendetta. It's still a skimmer, that means if you have kroot blocking a side you can just fly over them. It also gives you the ability to fly over an infiltrated kroot line. Not on the turn you made the scout move but in subsequent turns. It also gives you the ability to fly over a pirahna path block line as well.

I'm a big devil dog fan myself. But I have to give the valks/vend's there chance to impress me. A big issue I have with taking all the chimera's and devildogs is parking lot syndrome. When you put 12 vehicles on the table, especially in spearhead, your options are real limited and if someone can jump your line early enough and immobilize/stun your front runners it makes things really dicey. The valks help to thin out my table a bit and give me more room to maneuvre.


Yes, the vendetta can fly over just about anyting he sets up. But as soon as your front loaded 'shock and awe' transport and cargo move more than 12" on turn 1, the 9 broadside tau player has won. A modestly sized kroot screen can deploy on one flank of a refused flank, just close enough to the table edge so that you can't fit on the table, but just far enough aay from the edge that you can't land safely by going a maximum of 12". So you go flat out, say 'go', get markerlit and brought down by broadsides. Things get better when you start on the table, but he can block both a good scout move, and a good landing spot. the ideal deployment of a vendetta would be to scout within 12" of a tank, move 6 in the move phase, shoot your three lascannons and deploy a vet unit out 2" to close range melta the tank. Its a devastating move, so devastating in fact, that everyone is going to very quickly learn to counter it. That being said, I haven't taken any steps to counter this play in my own IG army, and you'd likely ruin me with it if you got first turn . I respect the valkyrie and the vendetta, they give you great alpha strike capability against many armies... but tau have that answer.

As to jumping over piranhas. Of course your skimmers can. But that short range 'lumbering behemoth' demolisher is stuck firing his ordnance at suicidally close range, hoping to get help from nearby meltaguns, and being pushed back a whole turn. If the piranhas get ignored, then its bye-bye leman russ. They obviusly wont get ignored. But every shot into them is one less into the broadsides, so they are kinda like a really long range sheild drone for them.

Traffic jams can happen, but I generally try to keep chimeras in front of my artillery, and my devildogs on the flanks. It exposes my troops, and people have been going after them more and more because of that. But I still haven't lost because of that (we were trying to remember if I've lost with new IG at all the other day... I have) It is totally something legit to worry about, and valks and vendies certainly circumnavigate that problem much better.

Warmaster wrote:The etheral was deployed in the middle broadside unit. It's one of the reasons I charged vets into it on the 2nd turn. I was really hoping to put enough wounds on him to down him. He forgot to detach and move him and almost paid the price!

His sneaky tactic that didn't work is an interesting thing to note too. Since I got to go first on scout moves I was able to move directly in front of his broadsides. If he had had the kroot out he wouldn't have had this issue, or if he had won the role to move scouts first. His plan was to move the pathfinder devilfish up in front of the broadsides to try to completely obscure them the first turn and force you to down the fish. Then if you can't down the fish they move out of the way and open up. My only concern with that tactic would be if the skimmer get's stunned because they you are blocking your own line of site. The tricky part is that the broadside can see over a downed devilfish so if you wreck or immobilize the fish he can see over it.


Broken record Shep says Kroot one more time, you shouldn't get a second turn charge on broadsides even with scouting skimmer transports.

and i totally agree with you on that last bit. So scary to have that stunned come up and have no LOS to your clutch unit.

I like your aggressive, yet balanced IG list, and I like the tau players list as well. The three of us aren't going to make carbon copy lists, because we all gravitate to what works for our own playstyle. My uber conservative play makes me crave redundancy and very clear sometimes very obvious tactics. It works for me, but gamblers usually do better with a totally different risk/reward ratio. I think thats what vendettas bring.

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Shep wrote:Thanks so much Warmaster...

I've been waiting for that particular matchup to surface here... and with two pretty hard lists. Loved it!

Nothing wrong with 9 broadsides and 2 units of pathfinders in a take on all comers.

I notice that he spent 180 points on shield drones. That could have bought a 2 piranha unit with change to spare (He could use have used them to block off your demolisher for a couple crucial turns). Did you find that he needed 4 shield drones per unit to face down your shooting?

Also, beware of tau players that have large units of kroot. Your vendetta scout moves get blocked off by well spaced infiltrated kroot units, forcing the long range shoot-out. (I'm trying to bite back my devildog preference here...) If you are going to outflank, those same kroot can space out to block off a side. No tank shock to save you from that trick.

Thanks a ton for the great batrep. i took a lot away from it. Keep em coming!



Can't the valks fly OVER the kroot since they are skimmers? I doubt 20 kroot can deploy deep enough for a 12" move, moreso for a 24" move by the valk (the passengers can always try to grav chute in)...



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I'm actually not sure if I dig the vendetta as a transport. I think I like the option of it being there but I'm not necessarily always going to deploy in it. I've re-tooled the army a bit, dropping things I consider practically worthless, like the sws teams. We will see what I play against this week. I'm aiming to keep the list a bit more versatile.

I definitely think that a Tau player needs to have at least 1 10 man unit of cheapo kroot to protect from the alpha strike, plus they just seem to be very versatile.

Something I've been investigating for IG myself is what options are there for preventing the infiltrate denial tactic. You can field harker or you can field ratlings or you can field storm troopers. None of them equal the expendability of 7 pt kroot or even a cheap 5 man scout squad. So what that says to me is don't plan on being able to alpha strike someone. Which my next list is definitely taking into account. But like your's I don't have much defense against. I think my main defense against it will be including an astropath and starting off the table.

I've suffered a few ties so far, but I haven't lost with the new IG yet. The scary part is that my opponents had to fight hard to get those ties. I haven't faced a good Vulkan marine list or my own Tzeentch Daemon list yet and I'm sure they will be good games. I definitely would like to get some more games in against the Tau list, but that's not likely, my friend will probably shelf them again for a while and go back to his eldar or nids.
   
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Warmaster wrote:I'm actually not sure if I dig the vendetta as a transport. I think I like the option of it being there but I'm not necessarily always going to deploy in it. I've re-tooled the army a bit, dropping things I consider practically worthless, like the sws teams. We will see what I play against this week. I'm aiming to keep the list a bit more versatile.

I definitely think that a Tau player needs to have at least 1 10 man unit of cheapo kroot to protect from the alpha strike, plus they just seem to be very versatile.

Something I've been investigating for IG myself is what options are there for preventing the infiltrate denial tactic. You can field harker or you can field ratlings or you can field storm troopers. None of them equal the expendability of 7 pt kroot or even a cheap 5 man scout squad. So what that says to me is don't plan on being able to alpha strike someone. Which my next list is definitely taking into account. But like your's I don't have much defense against. I think my main defense against it will be including an astropath and starting off the table.

I've suffered a few ties so far, but I haven't lost with the new IG yet. The scary part is that my opponents had to fight hard to get those ties. I haven't faced a good Vulkan marine list or my own Tzeentch Daemon list yet and I'm sure they will be good games. I definitely would like to get some more games in against the Tau list, but that's not likely, my friend will probably shelf them again for a while and go back to his eldar or nids.


Well you played the vendie just right. it isn't a transport, until you face tau, then you are getting outshot unless you can get melta into play. He didn't have melta of his own, so it didnt hurt you to get close to him, and you were able to deliver some hurtin' bombs into his deployment zone.

I think the 30 point astropath is good enough. Id like to face down a pure 100% alpha strike and see if I can just weather it. I think I can against a pedro list, I know I can against a deathwing list. But demons and IG alpha strikers might make me wish I started off table. It'll be fun when dark eldar come out... there will be another army trying that trick

Watch out for the metagame shift. These wins will get tougher and tougher for us. I've just been savoring being the new 'dex. But my buddies are starting to figure me out. We've got a couple more months, i think...

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