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Apologies, as I am sure this is in the forum and the rulebook. Unfortunately, my search-fu is flawed and my book absent.

Lets say there is a piece of terrain 1" high (like a rolling hill or something to that effect). We ruled it not difficult terrain. My opponent has units on one side and I have my guys on the other. He fires a weapon that would negate my armour save. Would I get a cover save?

I am thinking yes, because he was shooting through terrain. He was saying no, because he could see 1/2 of every model in the unit.

If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

50percent coverage role only effects vehicles and monstrous creatures, with infantry they only have to be covered at all to count as being covered.

So basically whilst Gwar might of taken the point to the slight extreme, he is once again right.

Well... son of a motherless goat. I KNEW IT

Well... that was 5 terminators and 2 cyclone missile launchers well spent.

Thanks

--EDIT--

I only argue with GWAR! when I feel like being defeated, or those rare occasions I think he's incorrect.

heck if the terrain peice was one inch high their shouldnt of even been a debate on it, aslong as the majority of your guys were behind it it would be obvious you'd get cover.

Gwar! wrote:If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

yes this is incorrect. For vehicles and MC if the model is at least 50% blocked for LOS then it's obscured.

For regular infantry at least half of the unit has to be completely not visable to gain the cover save or the unit has to have a friendly unit or enemy unit in the way.

5+/10 models visable = cover save
enemy or friendly units in the way, but you still ahve LOS = cover save
No LOS... you can't shoot

combo wrote:heck if the terrain peice was one inch high their shouldnt of even been a debate on it, aslong as the majority of your guys were behind it it would be obvious you'd get cover.

ALL of my guys were behind it LOL.

BlueDagger wrote:

Gwar! wrote:If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

yes this is incorrect. For vehicles and MC if the model is at least 50% blocked for LOS then it's obscured.

For regular infantry at least half of the unit has to be completely not visable to gain the cover save or the unit has to have a friendly unit or enemy unit in the way.

5+/10 models visable = cover save
enemy or friendly units in the way, but you still ahve LOS = cover save
No LOS... you can't shoot

He could see each model, just not all of each model. So they wouldn't get a cover save?

BlueDagger wrote:For regular infantry at least half of the unit has to be completely not visable to gain the cover save or the unit has to have a friendly unit or enemy unit in the way.

Sorry, wrong:
page 21:
When ANY part of the target models body (as defined on page 16) is obscured ... the target model is in cover.

You do not have to be totally out of sight, just 0.000001% out of sight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Harkainos wrote:He could see each model, just not all of each model. So they wouldn't get a cover save?

Don't worry, he is wrong.

BlueDagger wrote:

Gwar! wrote:If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

yes this is incorrect. For vehicles and MC if the model is at least 50% blocked for LOS then it's obscured.

For regular infantry at least half of the unit has to be completely not visable to gain the cover save or the unit has to have a friendly unit or enemy unit in the way.

5+/10 models visable = cover save
enemy or friendly units in the way, but you still ahve LOS = cover save
No LOS... you can't shoot

Sorry BlueDagger, you are completely wrong here on cover for infantry.

Page 21: When any part of the target model's body is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover.
Page 22: If half or more of the models in the target unit are in cover, then the entire unit is deemed to be in cover and all of its models may take cover saves.

I think you are misinterpreting the first paragraph of Units partially in cover on page 22. It isn't telling you that the only way to get a cover save for a partially in cover unit is to have half completely obscured. It is simply clarifying that a model completely out of line of sight counts, as does any model that is partially obscured from the standard When are models in Cover? section of page 21.

You do not have to be totally out of sight, just 0.000001% out of sight.

unless that 0.000001% is the base. If your going to use hyperbole please do it clearly.

Wow, your right. My appologizies on that one. If the legs, not the bases and feet, were blocked via LOS from your models and at least have the unit was this way then he confers a cover save.

Good call Gwar

Clthomps wrote:

You do not have to be totally out of sight, just 0.000001% out of sight.

unless that 0.000001% is the base. If your going to use hyperbole please do it clearly.

Oh I'm sorry. Please wire me the funds so I can get my lawyer on it. I assumed that you would use your brain and realise I meant "so long as it is obscuring anything defined on page 16". But sadly when I assume, I make an Ass out of U.

And me too I guess.

I think you are misinterpreting the first paragraph of Units partially in cover on page 22. It isn't telling you that the only way to get a cover save for a partially in cover unit is to have half completely obscured. It is simply clarifying that a model completely out of line of sight counts, as does any model that is partially obscured from the standard When are models in Cover? section of page 21.

Yep, this was the case. Wasn't mixing the what is technically in cover plus the 50% units in cover together. Once again good call

BlueDagger wrote:

I think you are misinterpreting the first paragraph of Units partially in cover on page 22. It isn't telling you that the only way to get a cover save for a partially in cover unit is to have half completely obscured. It is simply clarifying that a model completely out of line of sight counts, as does any model that is partially obscured from the standard When are models in Cover? section of page 21.

Yep, this was the case. Wasn't mixing the what is technically in cover plus the 50% units in cover together. Once again good call

I was right first BTW.

unless that 0.000001% is the base. If your going to use hyperbole please do it clearly.

I tend to prefer parables over hyperboles. That way things don't get too out of hand.

Oh, and parables often use animals, who doesn't like animals?

Modquisition on.

ladies lets all remember Rule #1 here. maintain a positive, nonhostile posting pattern please.

If that doesn't help then maybe this will be of assistance

They taste great... that's for sure

Gwar! wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

I think you are misinterpreting the first paragraph of Units partially in cover on page 22. It isn't telling you that the only way to get a cover save for a partially in cover unit is to have half completely obscured. It is simply clarifying that a model completely out of line of sight counts, as does any model that is partially obscured from the standard When are models in Cover? section of page 21.

Yep, this was the case. Wasn't mixing the what is technically in cover plus the 50% units in cover together. Once again good call

I was right first BTW.

Yeah, but proving to people exactly why they are wrong is always worth the extra time. Teach a man to fish rather than just giving the fish, etc.

Gwar! wrote:If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

It has been touched on, but just to clarify why Gwar was wrong here....

You can have a large part of a model obscured, but not count as being in cover. You must have part of the head, torso, legs, arms obscured for it to matter, if the gun/wings/crest/feet/etc are obscured, it has no effect.

coredump wrote:

Gwar! wrote:If even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% each of 5 models in a 10 man squad are obscured, you get the cover save (So long as it is Infantry etc).

It has been touched on, but just to clarify why Gwar was wrong here....

You can have a large part of a model obscured, but not count as being in cover. You must have part of the head, torso, legs, arms obscured for it to matter, if the gun/wings/crest/feet/etc are obscured, it has no effect.

As I said before, I was assuming that you interpreted Model as the parts that count as defined on Page 16. But as I said, when I assume I make an Ass out of U and Me

Don't worry. You didn't make an ass out of me, I posted the correct answer.

It does seem disengenous, however, for you to post an incorrect answer, and then say you were still right, because you meant it to be right. Eventhough what you posted was wrong.
And then imply that it is other peoples fault for not 'knowing' that you meant something other than what you actually posted.

edit: I don't think it would be so egregious, if you used the same criteria when commenting on other peoples posts.... but you are *much* more critical when others post, and expect people to be much more forgiving of yours....


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