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Looking for Space Marine Fans to throw up some info about space marines...anything helps.

Strengths:
Strong survivable Basic Infantry.
BS4 Standard weapons and tanks.
Strong HQ choices.
Plenty of special characters.
Frequently updates codex and model line.
Very Survivable Vehicles (Especially the Land Raider)

Weaknesses:
No great transports. (rhinos are fragile, razorbacks are fragile and expensive, Land raiders are expensive and not dedicated transports except to termies)
Not a lot of bodies on the field.

razorbacks are fragile and expensive

No... They're fragile and very, very cheap for what they do.

Anyway...

The strength of Space Marines is basically everything. They can shoot well, assault well, can be very mobile, etc. Even when they focus on one facet, they tend to still be decent at everything else. For example, even if you load up on shooty Marines, they're still Marines, still have a solid statline, so they're not pushovers in assault.

Their weakness is that they don't do much of anything TOO well. Generally the way to build a power list in 40K is you find the brokenest unit in the Codex, you load up on that, and then you find the best way to support it with the rest of the list. There's nothing in the SM list that's TOTALLY broken, to allow for this. Some stuff (Vulkan, Shrike, Drop Pods, 6x Dreads) head in that direction, but they're still fairly balanced lists.

The end result is that it's very hard to build a truly weak SMs list. Almost anything you choose will be worth taking. On the other hand, it's hard to build heavily powergamed lists of the sort that can go out and win 'Ard Boyz and such. There's no Hydra, Vendetta, Dakkafex, 4e Falcon, etc. to break the game, and make them top tier unstoppable.

One other weakness, which may diminish over time, but which has already stuck around longer than I'd assume it would, is that Marines tend to be the center of the metagame. People talk about "Marine Equivalents" in their mathhammer all the time (myself included).

Nobody is going to build their list asking "does this weapon do well against Fire Warriors?" Or "is this a good weapon to kill Gaunts?" They tend to build lists to be ready for MEqs, and assume the other stuff will die even faster. When you put a Marine army down on the table, you can be pretty certain that your opponent has thought more about beating your Codex than any other.

Marines have a relatively easy time 'meching up'. Their basic transports are very cheap and cost effective, and the Land Speeder is one of the most cost effective mobile weapon platforms in the game. Predators are also very cost effective gun platforms.

No great transports. (rhinos are fragile, razorbacks are fragile and expensive, Land raiders are expensive and not dedicated transports except to termies)

What about drop pods? I am of the opinion that they rule

Clthomps wrote:

No great transports. (rhinos are fragile, razorbacks are fragile and expensive, Land raiders are expensive and not dedicated transports except to termies)

What about drop pods? I am of the opinion that they rule

35 points for the ability to keep a unit out of the game until your dice like you.
1 drop pod + whatever you want is a good investment.
2 is a total waste of points.
3 is better than 2, but you're still holding a squad in reserve. the only possible good that can come from that is to make it a tac squad and drop it right next to an objective.

SM are the stat army
They have good stats for all their units. all of the units do good things but not the best things. dont have any tricky abblitys (mostly) like skimmers that make you roll 2 dice for damage take the lowest (F you eldar!) but you pay for it in points. their stuff is expensive but not too horrably expensive (Chaos)

Marines can kinda pick and choose to be assulty or melee but most of the stuff i see leans SM more into the assulty catagory. for example there is only like 2 HQs that are shooty and one of them has to upgrade to it

Sm rock I dont care what you say they are awsome, and I dont meen awsome in the cheesy broken way like they will absolutley crush your opponent no matter how good he is I meen they are awsome as in the fact the the new edition of 40k with the new codex is brilliant.

Ok strenghts of space marines are they can field any type of armie you like and even specialise in those area's to a fair degree.With the exeption of scouts, there balistic skill is the best in the game no other race other than chaos can bring a army wide three plus to hit stat line with all the weapon options marines get, (not counting necrons because there guns are glorified bolters with no upgrade options until the next codex that is) marines are half decent in assault army wide, and pretty dang good with some elite choices you get, awsome fire power up there with the best of them in pure ranged damage out put, tough to kill, so tough to kill that everyone gears there lists to play marines, if your opponent doesnt plan to kill marines you will win, great mechanised army wide choices, predator is the best tank in the game point for point, so many ways to play them you can go all fast attack, all gunline, all alpha strike, all mech, ect lots more stuff that is good but I dont want to go on. they look awsome army wide a well painted space marine army is very impressive to look at, they look tough and ready for battle, even ork hordes of over a 100 will be a little unerved at the site of 40 marines on the table that looks good in the right hands.

weaknesses: Usually always out numberd , bad dice rolls can cost you the game sometimes, (good ones will secure you the game sometimes sort of a yin yang thing, average will keep you in the hunt) not the best in assault, required to bring fire support no matter what kind of list you bring, hard to master all of the elements and pull off all of the crazy combos they can bring, so many good choices its hard to make a list and get everything you want, thers more down sides im sure but thats all I can think of. Space marines are without a dobt my favorite army and I dont care how many people play them, they are very competitve in the right hands all and all really fun to play and they are the good guys clad in armor like noble knights conquesting countless enemys and in the new codex they live up to ther hype.

Agreed Space marines are good at pretty much everything but thats aslo their weakness

Tau are good at shooting and not CC 10 points for basic unit
Orcs are good at CC and not shooting 6 points for the basic (that lack of save really shaves points)
SM are good at shooting and CC 16 points per model

if SM are shooting they are wasting their good CC stats
if SM are CCing they are wasting their good Shooting stats they can do anything... but they pay for it

I read this somewhere back in 3rd-4th edition, but it definitely still applies.

Space Marines are built as generalists. Your points thereafter are designed towards specializing them to emphasize their shooty or assault aspects. You pay for their good stats, but it usually works out.

One thing about Marines is that there's usually a cap to their specialization where you'll have difficulty outdoing the specialists at a reasonable points level. For example, shooty Space Marines can put out a lot of dakka, but you'll lose a long-range firefight with IG 9 times out of 10 (I'm assuming all the armies are built with effectiveness in mind). Conversely, while marines aren't bad in close combat and can field a couple of "death squads" (TH/SS Terminators come to mind), expecting to beat Orks or Cult Chaos in the assault phase is usually an unreasonable expectation.

However, the generalist nature of the army is such that all isn't lost even if you specialize one way only to find yourself outdone. Since the basic Space Marine is formidable in all respects and Marines are a mobile army (in this age of cheap transports and mech. rules anyway), your tactical options can be suited to your opponent. You'll have a very hard time out-assaulting Orks and outshooting Guard, but all but the most specialized marines can outshoot Orks and out-assault Guard. Furthermore, Space Marine stats ensure that when your plan falls apart upon enemy contact, you're still capable of cleaning up a (hopefully) weakened foe. Your lines won't immediately crumble when you get hit in assault and a relatively small number of Marines, even non-assault specialists (especially with Bolt Pistols and Krak Granades as standard equipment) can wreck havok against against an IG or Tau SAFH.

It's true that Marines don't have much in the way of "OMG MUST HAVE" models, but they're a very tactical army whose range of options will ensure that they don't have any bad matchups no matter how you specialize your army. You'll definitely have unfavorable matchups to be certain (such as armies with a plethora of their "OMG MUST HAVE" models mentioned above), but your army will never simply roll over and die against some matchups (like Nids vs. Mech, for example). There's a chance to win every battle with Marines. Steamrolling one aspect of the game is hard to do, but Marines are very good at using their mobility and generalist nature to single out an enemy army's weakness and exploit it.

Funshade wrote:
Orcs are good at CC and not shooting 6 points for the basic (that lack of save really shaves points)

Now, I could be wrong here, but Orks are actually pretty good at shooting, unless you really need that AP5 instead of AP6. If you look at 3 Orks with a shoota vs. 1 Space Marine with a bolter, you may raise an eyebrow.

Marines are very forgiving in playstyle. They are able to do everything quite well, although they do nothing exceptionally. So no matter what choices you take you most likely be able to deal with most threats. Just looking at the tactical squad there are so many options from shooty to assaulty and anti-tank to anti-infantry. But no matter what road you take you can handle most threats. This "no possible way to screw up in build process is what attracts most new gamers to marines. They are few in numbers and will fall to ork assault and IG firepower.

The actual advantages of Space Marines:

The Space Marine codex will always be the first codex printed in each edition. (and at least 2 of the next 5 will be Space Marine Codexes as well)

All of your models will be in plastic, and when they run out of models to make plastics for they will simply invent more units.

You can take whatever you want and never be considered cheesy.

You also get to stand on your pedestal and give a half hour lecture about the importance of fluff and balanced, well designed lists to anyone who brings at least AP 3 weapon anywhere near the table until you have made it entirely clear that they are the scum of the earth and should be left in a gutter to rot.

Every comp list ever is designed with you in mind.

lol nice...i'll keep that in mind.

THey are slow and cumbersome

space marines are all about balance, but to your style. if you like CC, you still need shooters. if you like shooters, you still need CC, now this is true of every army to an extent, but an army about being okay at everything needs to be okay at everything, or they're just gonna lose. you can't just go all tac. marines in a tournament, because someone's gonnna rape you with IG, because you can't abuse their weakness. you can't go CC with Orks because they're weakness is in range. use a wide variety of units. the only thing i can recommend is ALWAYS, ALWAYS use tac marines. if the SM are an army of general, good at anything units, these people are the perfect example of them. i wouldn't charge a horde of orks with them alone, but i wouldn't shoot it out with a bunch of tau with just them either. also, somebody1, they are NOT slow. they aren't particularly fast, but despite wearing a small car as armor, they move as fast as any regular ground troop.

Well I've played with an ultramarines army for some time now, mainly against 'nids & orks. According to all the SM fluff, they use tactics highly focussed on rushing towards the opponent and crush it quickly. Honestly, I have never tried this tactic out on the battlefield, as I usually play against orks, and they really own in cc. Mostly I play my marines very defensive (might be a result of playing with empire --->lots of handgunners). I hardly move, shoot most of the time, and keep my assault squad, and assault terminators in cover a bit for when and if the opponent gets close enough to engage in cc. AS most people already said, SM are strong overall, but don't have any specific talents in only ranged, or cc. Not that it would be a problem, if you balance your army with some ranged and melee units. Also, don't underestemate scouts! Scouts may seems weaker, well they are, but they don't have to be trash filling up slots and points if you use them in a good way. I never put my scouts in the front ranks of the army, but keep some with sniper rifles, heavy bolters and missile launchers to cover my flanks, and slow down the opponent's assault (pinning ftw!).

Where the real downside of the SM might be, is their numbers. A SM army will nearly always be smaller in number than your opponent. not if you're against chaos marines or other SMs. The downside of a few strong soldiers is, that they aren't able to be all over the battlefield at once, although the new rule to split up a 10-man squad into 2 5-man squads may help. Especially in some scenario's with low point army's (500 for example), you will find yourself outnumbered qutie heavily. If you need to be on multiple spots on the battlefield, you may have a hard time, as the opponent can spread their army much more over those points.

Apart from that, try to find a withc or selfnamed wizard in a backalley somewhere to jinxx your opponent's rolls. Bad rolls also are weakness, even more than in armies with lot's of models. If you get a wound, and your roll is low, it hurts, it hurts badly. I've seen a 10-man SM squad take 12 lasguns hits, no wounds. A terminator squad took 5 hits, 2 of them died...mental damage guaranteed!

Note: make use of cover, weapons with lots of armor penetration works well too. And if your SM opponent plays in a defensive way, send cheap troops ahead to catch all the bullets and buy time for your strong melee troops to get closer. Most transport vehicles don't work very well I think, as most SM armies will have some anti-vehicle heavy weapons to pick them out.

Field Tacticus Maximus wrote:Apart from that, try to find a withc or selfnamed wizard in a backalley somewhere to jinxx your opponent's rolls. Bad rolls also are weakness, even more than in armies with lot's of models. If you get a wound, and your roll is low, it hurts, it hurts badly. I've seen a 10-man SM squad take 12 lasguns hits, no wounds. A terminator squad took 5 hits, 2 of them died...mental damage guaranteed!

I just read your post... mental damage guaranteed!