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So, after throwing silly numbers of army lists in the bin last night, I decided to go to my local agony aunt and 'Ask Dakka'

The obvious 'goodies' for competitive eldar are Jetseer Councils and stuff in waveserpents (avengers, dragons etc).

I know the principles behind the 'moving castle' eldarzilla army but I feel sure that it would get munched by a lot of top-tier armies (plus there's no way I can afford that many Wraithguard models... )

My problem is that I can't seem to fit enough stuff in to make any gameplan viable. The best I've managed so far is 2x DA squads in serpents with BL, 2x storm guardian squads with 2x flamers and destructorlock in serpents with SL and a fire dragon squad in a 3rd BL serpent, with a cheap farseer for doom tagging onto one of the squads.

This would seem to have enough anti-horde but not enough anti-tank and would get slaughtered by Loota or hydra spam as the serpents would get popped before the troops got in range.

Can anyone help???

Cut down from three bright lances two three, cut down that full 10man squad of firedragons & try and add in a fire prism or two. You dont really need four troop choices at 1500 so you could drop one of those aswell.

4-5 serpents, a few more prism tanks... its not easy to kill via lootas/hyrda spam. A full loota squad does not guarentee a dead serpent.. yes a blade storming dire avenger squad (that unloads the next turn) does guarentee a near-dead loota squad (unless that squad has 4+ saves.. I cant remember off hand). Especially definetly dead if it is a templatey storm guardain squad.

4 serpents, 3 of troops & one of dragons.. plus some fire prisms... Plenty & powerful!

(P.s my no.4 key has nearly broken off )

Four troop choices at 1500 points is complete overkill with Mech Eldar. Heck I run with two troop choices because the usual mech Eldar tactic is "blow them of the board or die trying.

The best mech lists have between 1-2 Doom/guide/RoWi Farseers.
2x Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents (reccomend EML or Shuriken Cannons
a Squad of Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent
Two Fire Prisms.


That gives you some nice long AT or anti horde, some great high AV busting AT, more than enough close range Anti-horde and lots of lovely mobility.

How does the Fire Prism compare against a wave serpent with T-L Bright Lances?

I can see the versatility of the Prism to get the Large Blast but it doesn't seem a very good tank hunter (although with its long range it can sit in the backfield and ping off shots)

The serpents are better protected with the energy field and can carry fire dragons for yet more tank hunting goodness.

Fire Prisms are one of two things in the eldar codex above strength eight, the other being witchblades.

Fire Prisms are much better than Bright Lanced wave serpents for popping vehicles.

For a start linked together they are AP1, a huge deal, number two they are twinlinked at BS four, and a scatterdice(which means you've got a much better chance to hit) number 3 they can sit far away and number 4 they wont be expected to speed off delivering units.

Serpents are lack lustre anti tank, they are transports first and they are not reliable anti tank, of course at 1500 points you should run with a unit of fire dragons and two Fire Prisms at 1500 points, that'll give you all your AT you'll need.

Prisms are extremely flexible, they are both good AT as well as excellent swarm killers.

Adding two prism shots gives a reasonable chance at killing heavy armor, and a regular str9 blast works well on lighter armor as well as heavy infantry.

Instead of running a couple of storm guardian squads in serpents tho stick with two serpents of DA and if you want another troops choice take 5 pathfinders. A unit of pathfinders in cover requires some work to remove, its a great unit to grab an objective or hold your base objective in cover.

A mech eldar force wants to field enough tanks so as to overload the opponents AT capability. Give him too many targets that all require the same part of his army to deal with. This then allows you to increase his problem by whittling away at his AT forces each turn. If you field 3 prisms plus several serpents then it just isnt possible for some armies to handle that force. Two prisms work well also, its a matter of personal taste on how many to field.

Eldar can be run several different ways, and there is a great deal of variation in the details, but mech eldar has a basic core that will serve you well. Couple DA squads in serpents (serpent weapons vary per taste), one+ squad of fire dragons in serpent(s) (number of dragons in the squad varies, as does the use of an exarch) and finally 2-3 prisms.

Sliggoth

IMO take as many dragons as you want, but always take an exarch with tank hunters. It is totally worth 27 points.

This might be a decent thread to ask - is Mechdar at all compatible with Wraithlords? IE mass serpent spam (DAs and Fire Dragons), but using your heavy slots for Wraithlords instead of prisms (which would require some kind of baby sitting squad, maybe minsized harlies for the psyker+veil).

at 1500 I run

Eldrad
8Banshees +Exarch(warshout,Acrobat,Executioner) in wave with EML/stones

5 Dragons in wave with Scatter laser/stones
5 Dragons in Wave with scatter laser/stones

9Dire avengers+Exarch(Dual Cats,Bladestorm) in Wave with EML/stones

9Dire avengers+Exarch(Dual Cats,Bladestorm) in Wave with EML/stones

at 1750 I add 2 prisms with stones and at 1850 I put holo fields on the prisms and star engines on the dragon rides

I find that at 1500 waves outclass prisms. I want more bodies on the table and usually 2 dragons units going after the major threats. I put Scatter lasers on the dragons because they are usually running flat out with fortune on turn 1 after major targets and on turn 2 taking them out.

I find that scatter lasers are more reliable when hitting side/rear armor on chimeras/Rhinos in taking them out rather than a 1 shot higher strength weapon.

I used to run 1 large unit of dragons with Exarch but I found that overkill and that 5 to 6 man units of dragons is more than enough to take out targets 95% of the time.


As to wraith lords in a mech list thats a bad idea. without a screening unit like WG they will die quickly. (note that harlies can't screen wraithlords) without a psyker nearby they will do nothing 1/6 of time. not to mention a mech list is meant to be very mobile and react to the enemies position.

lets say you setup your wraith lord on the right flank and the enemy sets up the majority of his army opposite it. you will usually send your mech list to the weaker flank and work your way to the stronger side but the wraith lord will be left behind fending for himself.

At 1500 I would always go with something like:
- 3xfireprisms (naked)
- 4xwaveserpents (EML)

Inside the 4 serpents I would only consider putting:
- Dragons
- Dire Avengers (Bladestorm)
- Storm Guardians with 2 Flamers (not sure about the warlock, it would depend on how many points left I would have)

One thing to consider is the Autarch. The +1 to reserve rolls allows you to start your entire army in reserve and bring it on the board pretty quickly. This is great if you don't get first turn or if the terrain is lacking. The farseer is the better choice, but the Autarch is nice, especially if you have a squad of bike-mounted troops to escort him. Then he can rock the laser lance and mandiblasters. Solid.

The 'set up in reserve' strategy also allows you to use your high speed to beat the enemy. It can be really easy to concentrate on and destroy on portion of the enemy's army before the other half can help, especially if the bad guys set up spread out, which they tend to do if you don't give them a target to set up opposite.

I agree with the other posters that two or three troops choices are adequate for mechanized Eldar. Two should be in Waveserpents, and the third can be whatever you like. Pathfinders are hard to kill, bikes are cheap and fast, storm guardians have flamers, whatever. I usually take only two units of Dire Avengers and it works okay - not great, but okay.

If you have Fire Prisms (which are awesome, by the way) and Fire Dragons, then you don't need Bright Lances on the Wave Serpents. I usually give mine Missile Launchers and a hull S. Cannon, which is great for killing light vehicles and taking the odd shot at infantry.

mrdabba wrote:
.. As to wraith lords in a mech list thats a bad idea. without a screening unit like WG they will die quickly. (note that harlies can't screen wraithlords) without a psyker nearby they will do nothing 1/6 of time. not to mention a mech list is meant to be very mobile and react to the enemies position.

lets say you setup your wraith lord on the right flank and the enemy sets up the majority of his army opposite it. you will usually send your mech list to the weaker flank and work your way to the stronger side but the wraith lord will be left behind fending for himself.

Truncated your post a little, in the interest of saving space. Thanks for replying, and I guess I should clarify a little better what I had in mind.

Something along the lines of this:

Farseer w RoWa, Fortune
Maugan Ra

3x 5 DAs in TL BL + SC serpents
2x 5 FDs in SC/SC serpents

5 harlies incl. Shadowseer, Death Jester, fusion pistols

2x Wraithlords with BL/EML
= 1750 on the button.
Farseer+Ra hang out with the space clowns =]

About Wraithsight: That's why I'm including the Shadowseer (I might not have made it clear in my first post). That, and so that my harlies and friends can't be targetted.

About lack of cover: Can't my serpents provide cover for the Wraithlords? Not as permanent as a bunch of wraithguards, as you need to move around, but at least the option is there. I'm not sure if it'd actually work in practice, but having flat-out serpents (probably the FDs) providing cover for the shooty serpents, which in turn provide cover for my wraithlords.. Sounds nice on paper.

About the lack of mobility: I was thinking they could act as a firebase, moving perhaps 6" a turn (since Wraithlords can move and fire, as can the Death Jester/Ra). Might be an inferior choice to fire prisms, but at least they aren't really hurt by any weapons that don't hurt serpents/prisms. Of course, without the large blast of the Fire Prism, lootas might not be very fun!

I'm trying to consolidate my liking of Wraithlords/Harlies/Maugan Ra with my desire for a fast mech-y army - possibly a lost cause.

By the way, if anyone feels that this is taking things too far off-topic, let me know and I'll create a new thread about it. I don't want to derail the main topic of this thread, as it's interesting in its own right. Thanks.

Canonness Rory wrote:IMO take as many dragons as you want, but always take an exarch with tank hunters. It is totally worth 27 points.

Sorry Canonness Rory, but I'd give a big fat NO to both of those bits of advice.

Dragons are most points-efficient at about 6. More than that is overkill for vehicles.

And an exarch with Tank Hunters is WAY overkill against anything but Apoc superheavies.


To the OP- 3 troops choices is great at 1500. Two Prisms, as others have told you, are a very good idea. A Farseer with Fortune and/or Doom is good.

Keep the rides very skinny- just spirit stones on most of them. Anything that will be moving over 12" on a regular basis (Dragon's ride especially) should take no weapon upgrades, just basic TL Shuricannon. Otherwise, TL EML plus shuricannon or TL BLs are your best bet. At 2500, probably 2 TL BLs, the Dragons, the Prisms and a singing spear on your Farseer are enough.

And there's a steep learning curve. Don't get discouraged if you lose double-digits games before you start to get the hang of it, if your local group is really competitive. Just learn from every loss, and eventually you will be able to use mechdar's superior focus and speed to your advantage.