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this is my current guard army. I will include the strategy after.

Command Squad.
-creed 90
-3 vets w/ bolter 6
-vox 5
-camo cloak 20
-master of fleet 30
-body guard 15
Total 166

Infantry Platoon 1
-command sq. 30
-Infantry Sq. 50
- vox caster 5
-infantry sq. 50
-vox caster 5
-HWT 60
-x3 lascannon 45
Total 245

Veterans Squad 1 70
-vox 5
-demolitions 30
Total 105

Veterans Squad 2 70
-vox 5
-demolitions 30
Total 105

Veteran Squad 3 70
-vox 5
- Grenadiers 30
Total 105

LR Tank Squad

LRBT 150
-lascannon 15
- Multi-melta sponson 30
Total 195

LRBT 150
-lascannon 15
Total 165

(Vanquisher is seperate)

LRVT (vanquisher) 155
-Lascannon 15
-Multi-Melta Sponsons 30
-Night Commander Pask 50
Total 250

Basilisk 125


Grand Total 1501




So... My strategy is to simply surround the objective on your side in capture and control with the basilisk and Leman Russ Tanks. Have a squad of vets w/out the demo packs and melta bombs sit behind to take the objective, meanwhile blasting the guts out of any exposed marines. If the marines have a tank threatening to yours, simply blow it up before they can reach you with your vanquisher or lascannons. (always go first) You automatically tie, and if it goes right, you'll eliminate any guys the enemy has by his objective. Then it will be unclaimed, making you the winner as the only one with an objective. *note. This works best on Spearhead deployment, although pitched battle works too. Dawn of war... not so much.

What if you play a scenario that has more than two objectives? What if they have a Whirlwind? What if they contest with a Land Speeder? Since when can Veterans take 4 lascannons?

Well, it says in the codex that any 2 veterans not upgraded may take a lascannon at 20 points. I haven't had trouble with the whirlwinds I've faced, as i just killed it...
that strategy doesn't work with more objectives, and i use a different one I'll post later


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And land speeders easy 'pickens for a vanquisher.

Your list I find has some glaring holes.

First off, a tank squadron is typically a bad idea because it destroys the resilience of the Leman Russ chassis. Since immobilized results count as Destroyed in a squadron, that means glancing hits have the potential to kill the tanks and the advantage you get (mobility and fewer kill points) is largely wasted.

It's got a lot of firepower in the tanks and the pie plates can be very scary, but you have no contingency plan. Enemy vehicles, especially with the grace of Smoke, are more resilient than I think you give them credit for in this list and it would take very little hitting your lines, a few marines or a dozen orcs, to reduce your lines to rubble. For all the resilence on your russes, rear armor 10 means death in CC and you don't have nearly enough firepower to take out hordes. BS 4 flashlights on the veterans don't frighten anyone.

Also, mobility is a massive, massive weakness in your army. 5th Edition kinda killed the pure gunline. If you can't find a way to get around the field, you'll probably lose. Returning to the Capture and Control example you provided, a skimmer would probably die to tank fire. However, a savvy Marine player would hide the skimmer until the end of the game when there were fewer guns and the skimmer could contest the objective or simply leave the skimmer in reserve until the end of the game, making it completely safe from enemy firepower. If you plan to go first, than an enemy could tie up your objective at the bottom of the turn with a fresh skimmer. If the game ends right there, all your firepower is utterly wasted.

I suggest dropping a Russ or two and adding some mobility to the list. The new cheaper Chimera is one of the best buys in the new 'dex and can get your vets to various objectives while laying down some multi-shots that your army could use. One of the new flying transports, the Valkyrie or the Vendetta, also adds to that. Consider that by dropping the Pask Vanquisher, you could buy a Vendetta and another squad of Veterans, with enough points left over for a Chimera.

The idea of this list seems very guard-esque (superior firepower from one place), but I feel that your lack of mobility coupled with your over-reliance on your big tanks will lead to some rough times.

Pryokon wrote:
Since immobilized results count as Destroyed in a squadron,

5th Edition kinda killed the pure gunline.

1.) Only if you move out of coherency. If you just chill on an objective is isn't a problem.
2.) Gunline is still an acceptable tactic, you simply need things like counter-assault and dedicated anti-transport units.

40kplayer wrote:Well, it says in the codex that any 2 veterans not upgraded may take a lascannon at 30 points. I haven't had trouble with the whirlwinds I've faced, as i just killed it...
that strategy doesn't work with more objectives, and i use a different one I'll post later

The codex says you can replace two veterans a heavy weapons team. You can only do that once. It's the same wording as in the infantry squad.

Fielding veterans without weapons upgrades is more than a little bizarre. You're paying 20 points over an infantry squad to get BS4 lasguns.

The veterans in a company command squad can not be upgraded with bolters.

1.) Only if you move out of coherency. If you just chill on an objective is isn't a problem.

Welcome to 5th edition. Immobilized results against vehicle squadrons count as destroyed results now.

Man I hate 5th edition.

I still don't see why i can't have 4 lascannons. i'll quote the codex here. "Replace 2 Veterans with a Veteran Weapons Team armed with one of the following" it never says "you may replace only 2 vets" it says you can place, or so the wording makes it sound like, as many as you can.

the only reason my guys are vets is i don't like platoon cms
they use valuable troops, and take up points.

As for the mobility, this army is a prototype
just what i've gotten so far. I do plan to get a chimera or two, and am not entirely happy with my LR. I have never lost using this, but it might just be i'm facing a poor player



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to agree. 5th addition made it too easy to kill LR squads.


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I'll clear this up tomorrow. I'm going to the Seattle Battle Bunker store, so i'll ask an employee and see what he says.

""Replace 2 Veterans with..."

Replace: to provide a substitute or equivalent in the place of: to replace 2 veterans with a heavy weapon.
Two: amounting to two in number. One more than one, one less than three.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Now, the cool thing about a platoon command squad is you can stuff it with special weapons. Give them flamers and put them in a chimera and play angry ant hill when your opponent cracks it open. They can even give orders to those vets of yours to make them do cool things. Or put them in a transport with meltaguns and send them tank hunting. Heck, give them one of your lascannons and have them sit with the vets, if nothing else.

If I were doing vets, I would max out their special weapons, and weapons that make good use of their BS4. Sergeants with plasma pistols, line vets using plasma guns, roving vets in chimeras with meltaguns, etc. Carefully consider the point values of the doctrines. I just can't believe how expensive they are.

I just went on Libraryium Online. I guess i missed a part. I'll remake this sheet tomorrow before i go and post it

Updated! i plan to buy a chimera soon, so don't go on immobility. I solved the veterans problem, making them a heavy weps squad inside the infantry platoon.