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hi, i have a question about the leaping to ask. i tried to ask GW, but they do not reply :( .

i have played a game with my friends, it is Tau&SM vs. IG&Tyranids. i have a question regards the "leaping" rule of the tyranids warrior. the case is, the tyranids warrior is about 12" away from a group of fire warriors hide behind the wall, and the tyranids warriors declare to charge the fire warriors with his leaping ability that allows them to charge 12". that we have an agruement, does leaping need to take a difficult terrain test like that cavalry do, or like the word "leaping" ignore the terrain effect, just jump to the fire warriors. and if they jump, they will end up on the wall where the fire warriors are hiding, so do they need to take the dangerous terrain test for their landing, like other jumping units.

please help

First off, welcome to dakka.

Secondly, this should be in the "you make the call" section.

Lastly I'm not sure about the answer. I know that leaping allows you to jump over obstacles up to 1" high. My guess would be that since the closest nid has to assault the closest model (to ensure cc begins), but then the rest can assault as long as they follow the sequence in the rulebook (staying within coherency, trying to make it to base to base, etc...).

So if the warriors land on the wall so be it, but the warriors should be able to jump over it (as well as your models) so they can assault the the rear of your men. No dangerous terrain test though since they are not jump infantry. If they land on the wall I guess they would still have to make difficult terrain tests though.

Maybe someone who has experienced this before will be able to help you out.

Good luck

Uh-ho my bad..... can someone move it to "you make the call"section, sorry.

you have to notify a moderator. For your benefit I will tell you its the triangular box on the right hand side with an exclamation mark inside.

I am moving this thread to YMDC.

Well, page 13 includes low walls as difficult terrain.................
So unless otherwise defined by you and your opponent pre-game, I would say that they have to take a difficult terrain test to assault models on the other side of the wall.

Also, 90% of the debates/rules questions you find/post here are simply resolved if you discuss it before game or if the organizer (be it TO/Gaming Group) sets a standard or house rule for things.

Nothing will piss a player off more than assumption (and very bad dice rolls)

Welcome to Dakka

because we are noobs, so problems come out during the game. the major agruement is: does leaping fly over terrain or just dush to right into the enemy.

Leaping does whatever the rules for leaping says it does.

models with the leaping biomorph can charge 12" in open ground, if there is difficult terrain such as a low wall then they roll 2d6 and select the highest for charge distance.

Drunkspleen wrote:models with the leaping biomorph can charge 12" in open ground, if there is difficult terrain such as a low wall then they roll 2d6" and select the highest for charge distance.

Correct. Remember, Leaping does not mean you become beats, it in fact specifically specifies you do not, so you can only assault 2d6 pick highest , not 2d6 pick highest *2 like beasts

For leaping Warriors the leaping biomorph you would roll 3d6, pick the highest,

Nid codex Pg. 33 Leaping Biomorph
Nid codex Pg. 28 Move Through Cover

AdeptArtificer wrote:For leaping Warriors the leaping biomorph you would roll 3d6, pick the highest,

Nid codex Pg. 33 Leaping Biomorph

Errrm, what codex do you have? Looking at mine now and it says:

Leaping creatures gain a Fast Charge of 12", though they do not become Beasts. A creature with Leaping may make its full attacks when within 3" of a friendly model in base contact rather than the usual 2".

Edit: true they have Move through cover. Forgot about that. So they would roll 3D6" pick the highest

Gwar! wrote:Correct. Remember, Leaping does not mean you become beats, it in fact specifically specifies you do not, so you can only assault 2d6 pick highest , not 2d6 pick highest *2 like beasts

I have been wrong all this time with my leaping warriors getting to double their difficult terrain test. Just goes to show that warriors really do suck at everything. Thanks for pointing that out Gwar. Now I don't have any excuses.

No Problem. Just remember it is 3D6, not 2D6, as I forgot to take MTC into account before

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:models with the leaping biomorph can charge 12" in open ground, if there is difficult terrain such as a low wall then they roll 2d6" and select the highest for charge distance.

Correct. Remember, Leaping does not mean you become beats, it in fact specifically specifies you do not, so you can only assault 2d6 pick highest , not 2d6 pick highest *2 like beasts

Wait, let me get this straight, you are saying that a leaping warrior, going through cover, will move a *maximum* of 6"??

Tell me you are joking....

coredump wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:models with the leaping biomorph can charge 12" in open ground, if there is difficult terrain such as a low wall then they roll 2d6" and select the highest for charge distance.

Correct. Remember, Leaping does not mean you become beats, it in fact specifically specifies you do not, so you can only assault 2d6 pick highest , not 2d6 pick highest *2 like beasts

Wait, let me get this straight, you are saying that a leaping warrior, going through cover, will move a *maximum* of 6"??

Tell me you are joking....

No Joke, that is what the rules say.

Fast Charge has no rules now.

Like Thornback, Symbiote Rippers, blah blah blah.

It even specifically states they do not become beasts. That means they remain Infantry, so follow the infantry rules when assaulting though cover.

And that's just one of the reasons CC Warriors with Leaping are just not worth it under the current 'dex.....

They still work wonders for me.

Then again I use biovores, and a ~300 point carnifex regularly.

It just takes a little effort and an intentional use in a list.

edited to add myself a reminder to post a pic of that carnifex like I said I would to someone a while back

I'm sure a smart general can take advantage of them.

Every time I run my Warriors w/ Leaping/rending/scything/Toxin Sacs/x2AG the 'stealers out perform them, and that's usually including negotiating them into feeder tendrils range..

It's hard for me to use them without feeling short changed...

Gwar! wrote:It even specifically states they do not become beasts. That means they remain Infantry, so follow the infantry rules when assaulting though cover.

Except that, unlike standard infantry, they assault 12", not 6". In fact, the codex has nothing about rolling for difficult terrain, just a blanket statement of a 12" assault range.

I understand the train of thought you used to come to your conclusion, and I just have to chalk it up to more "Gwar Logic", as I have never even heard of anyone making that assertion before.

I could even bring up that the codex specifically mentions gaining a "Fast Charge", which is the same term used to describe the advantage a Beast gets. But I am sure it will not do anything to convince you, and I don't know anyone else that plays that way, so it is pretty much a moot point for the rest of the world.

coredump:
Show me where it says Leaping lets you assault double the distance on the dice?

Because I can show you the rules for Infantry (which the Warrior Remains) and the Rules for Infantry Assaulting Through Difficult Terrain. As such, the Warrior Assaults 3D6 Pick The Highest (Because of MTC) inches, and that is it. The 12" assault does not factor into it, because it does not mention what happens when you assault through Difficult Terrain.

Your Attacks at my Character by calling playing by the rules "Gwar Logic" are noted, but utterly unwarranted and unfounded.

At least Gwar! used logic.

Yes, Fast charge 12 is gained.
Please point to the rules explaining what that means in 5e, and you have a point.

coredump wrote:

Gwar! wrote:It even specifically states they do not become beasts. That means they remain Infantry, so follow the infantry rules when assaulting though cover.

Except that, unlike standard infantry, they assault 12", not 6". In fact, the codex has nothing about rolling for difficult terrain, just a blanket statement of a 12" assault range.

I understand the train of thought you used to come to your conclusion, and I just have to chalk it up to more "Gwar Logic", as I have never even heard of anyone making that assertion before.

I could even bring up that the codex specifically mentions gaining a "Fast Charge", which is the same term used to describe the advantage a Beast gets. But I am sure it will not do anything to convince you, and I don't know anyone else that plays that way, so it is pretty much a moot point for the rest of the world.

There are only two directions to go when Warriors assault through cover, you could claim that the 12" charge granted to them is a blanket statement and still applies, meaning they don't take a difficult terrain test, or you can follow the rules for infantry (which is what they are) and take a difficult terrain test, moving between 1 and 6 inches.

The issue with the prior of the two options is that nothing in thier rules grants them the right to ignore the general rules for assaulting through difficult terrain.

Regardless of which of these options you might argue for (although one is clearly not as valid as the other) the one thing the rules definitely DO NOT support is that they can multiply the result of thier difficult terrain test by 2.

well since no one can find the explanation about that on any rule books, i can not find anything about fast charge. can anyone go to ask GW for their answer? i tried to email them twice, but they just ignore me :(:(

dpredator666 wrote:well since no one can find the explanation about that on any rule books, i can not find anything about fast charge. can anyone go to ask GW for their answer? i tried to email them twice, but they just ignore me :(:(

I already told you the explanation. They Charge 3D6" pick Highest