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This army is pretty straight forward. Jam the Councils down opponent's throat, use prisms to handle resistance, and turbo boost around with bikes.


HQ's

Farseer - Mindwar, Fortune, Doom, Stones, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, jetbike, singing spear 208 pts

10 Warlocks on jetbikes x2 Enhance, x2 Embolden, x6 Destructor 550 pts

Farseer - Mindwar, Fortune, Doom, Stones, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, jetbike, singing spear 208 pts

10 Warlocks on jetbikes x2 Enhance, x2 Embolden, x6 Destructor 550 pts

Troops

6 jetbikes x2 Shuriken Cannons 152 pts

6 jetbikes x2 Shuriken Cannons 152 pts

6 jetbikes x2 Shuriken Cannons 152 pts

6 jetbikes x2 Shuriken Cannons 152 pts

Heavys

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon 125 pts

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon 125 pts

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon 125 pts

total 2499

Only fear is LD 10 character with psychic hood. 50/50 of getting Fortune isn't pleasing for Councils.

Tell me what I should be worried about.

Swap the Shuri-cannons on the Prisms for Spirit Stones. Basically, you're going to prey that the enemy doesn't try to wipe out your troops before the seer council jumps them.

If you come up against a psychic hood and nullzone, or another beatstick unit, it could get really ugly. Also, anything that ignores your T4/3+ Save only has to get through a re-rollable 4+, so beware lots of high strength, Low AP shots. Re-rollable 4+ isn't really all that great.

Basically, where you will get punished is when you charge something, wipe it out, and then have to eat return fire for a turn before you can do anything. This is even worse against a mech list, because they will run a wall of armor at you, and after you destroy it, they fall out and just shoot you before you get a chance to do anything.

So you're saying take 2nd weapon off and go with extra armor? I personally like the cannon. I can twin link prism cannon and fire shur cannon at different target.

Cannons helped me take down a 'thirster and Demon Prince in Demon Army the other day.

I'd be scared of lots of troops in transports, as whitedragon mentioned. You're mostly relying on short-range attacks to pop them and that makes you very vulnerable to whatever is inside.

Bikes sort of stick together and shoot the piss out of target. 8 twin-linked shur-cats and 6 cannon shots x4 squads isn't too bad.

Big thing is that not many players here have the truly optimized lists that could do some damage. So I have some advantage in that area.

I have thought about tuning list to include Warlock with spear in bike squads to give them role of popping transports.

Prisms can pop transports. Multicharges by councils is main way to control opponents.

22 seers on bikes can smash trough all armour.
And can IMO also handle ALOT of return fire. Plus they arent bad in CC either; especially not with TWO councils, that can support eachother, doing countercharges.
And with 12 heavy flamers+doom (followed by charging survivors) they can easily manhandle infantry!

What i will be MOST worried about though is getting the councils tied down in LONG CCs versus stuff with good saves (termies or LOTS of marines) or against stuff with feel-no-pain (Nurgle marines or Nobz). The council will in fact most often come out on top, but it can take them virtually the whole game.

If the councils do get tied down your troops bikes could be in for a serious pounding!

Other than that my only concern is the three lone Fire Prisms. I can imagine them receiving alot of AT fire... Keeping them at max range is probably good.

And all the guardian jetbikes in reserve will probably suit you fine very often.

I have no doubt that it is a VERY strong army if used well.
Double-maxsized jet councils = a WHOLE lot of pain

Cant think of a better way really to implement a double-council list for ard boyz!
The only real weakness is the weak troops. Hide those guys real well!!

One other base to consider for the councils could be: triple Holo falcons with avengers plus a serpent with dragons

PS. I think you could possibly improve your list by dropping, say 2 destructors from each council (i think 4 tl heavy flamers is plenty...). You then get 40 pts to use for some extra singing spears + spirit stones for the fire prisms

I have 5 10 man squads of Avengers and 5 Wave Serpents, BUT they are still on sprue. I'm not going to throw them together just to run in 'Ard Boyz.

Yes, the Councils draw alot of attention. Guys I'm playing are so worried about Councils that my troops draw very little attention. That's the beauty about it, but also a mistake on their parts.

I will consider the stones and spears.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Changed my list with LordofMuck advice. Going to try 3 games on Friday. Will try to have batreps from them.

I just don't like the spears. They take away from the HtH that this unit really needs to not be bogged down all game in.

you have three vehicles. They are going to take all your opponents AT fire. Without holofields you are going to lose them before they do any damage. That is an imperitive, this is not like in a mech list were you'll have a myriad of wave serpents bearing down on your opponent to hopefully detract some fire from the prisms, in this scenario he'll shoot at your Fire Prisms just because he doesnt have anything else to shoot at.

Singing Spears are pretty terrible. YOu lose one attack in close combat for no gain, and for what the ability to throw the spear? Sure thats alright on a Farseer whos part of a Dire Avenger squad to lend an extra shot, or give a slight chance of anti tank, but on a squad which is heading for CC theres not much point.

Holofields on Prisms is complete fail. You just increase the chance of losing Prism cannon from 1 in 6 to 1 in 3.

Strangely the Prisms haven't been destroyed in 5 games at 2500 points.

The original thought with sing spears was this. With all the mech showing up I'd like to pop chimera/rhino and then assault squad inside with a big multi charge.

I played 2 games with spears and just don't like them.

With kill points being in every mission Id say holofields are not complete fail at all

Preserving kill points means you dont have to kill as much stuff to win..(And eldar arent the powerhouse they were in 4th)

No fire dragons seems like it may be a hinderance.. One of the best tactics with councils is to surround a vehicle and destroy it which can be difficult with a 12" move, but not that hard if you move 24" then use dragons to kill it at range.. Or even have 3 singing spears in the group

6 destructors seems like overkill

2 seer councils will wreck some armies like guard sure, but as stated even 10 marines can take awhile to kill

Seer councils on bikes are good but they're more of a bait unit than you're main damage dealers No more than one squad fo five should be taken, they can turbo boost and gain a 3 up re-rollable cove save and are tempting targets for enemies. In order to be comptetive you shouldn't use any guardian bikes and your only troops choice should be dire avengers with defend and blade storm in wave serpents. The eldar army is very limited and you have make use of your best entries especially in Ard boys. The optimal choice in my opinion is would be three units of eight fire dragons with an exarch with a flamer and crack shot in wave serpents. Your troops should be dire avengers in wave serpents accompanied by far seers so they candoom and guide the blade storm to achieve 24 wounds on MEQs. For heavy support i would take 9 warwalkers with scatter laser and shuriken cannon, they can outflank and have 7 str 6 shots each. Be happy if the enemy is shooting your warwalkers instead of wave serpents. The strength of the eldar is their ability to redeploy their units rapidly, the way to play them is fire concentration, choose a unit and shoot everything at it. You also have to protect your units as they are expensive and you need to get the most out of them.

6 destructors is overkill, but killing 10 MEQ's could take awhile?

Prisms hug table edge and utilize range.

Bikes and Prisms may sit in reserves. I play the army as a reactionary force. It all depends on what my opponent does.

Dawn of War messes me up alittle. My plan is to jam the Councils right in front of enemy and make him deal with them. This tactic has done me well.

I understand what you guys are saying. I have the models to play mech Eldar, but they are still on sprue. I'm playing a themed Saim Hann Army due to it being what I have assembled and ready to go.

I do have a Doublewing DA's army also ready to go.

Well reason I dont like 6 is because you dont want to kill the whole squad.. The best thing to do with the council is to win combat in their turn so youre free

Sure you can decide not to fire the 6, but then why have 6? Thats my point really.. Wiping out the squad isnt that great since it leaves you open

Could save you points

Erm.. In regards to it increasing your chances of rolling a 3 to 1/3, you are wrong.

there are 36 combinations on d6. out of those 36 the chances that the lowest dice will be:
Lower than 3: 20
3: 7
Higher than 3: 9


With one d6 there are 6 combinations. Out of those 6 the chances that the lowest dice will be
Lower than 3: 2
3:1
Higher than3:3

So rolling a 3 on a d6 is a 1/6 chance. rolling less than a 3 is 1/3 and rolling more than a 3 is 1/2

However whilst rolling a 3 on 2d6 is 1/5.1 a slight increase of 0.9, the chances of rolling less than a 3 are increased to 1/1.8 and the chances of rolling more than a 3 decreased to 1/4.
so to recape

On one D6 you have 1/3:1/6:1/2
On two d6 you have 1/1.8:1/5.1:1/4

This is clearly an improvement.

This is almost a perfect list for the semifinals this weekend. In the first game, you minimize your kill points and make it almost impossible for anyone to beat you. If they dedicate their whole army to killing the 2 councils, all you have to do is kill two troop choices for the win. This army is an almost impossible matchup for anyone in round 1.

In round 2 you have the cover of night to protect your troops once again. The Prisms might not be all that useful, since Eldar have no searchlights, however you can remain relatively safe from enemy shooting during the dark and thrust the 22 council members into a huge melee which should stall most of the opponents army. Meanwhile the 4 jetbike squads can remain hidden and jump onto objectives as they pop up.

The third mission is the only one where I would have a chance. It forces you to concentrate in one spot, which you are good at, but the daylight will allow the opponent to drop the Prisms and give the troop jjetbikes some grief. The fight in the middle will be huge, but winnable if your opponent concentrates enough resources to the fight.

I'm seriously considering changing my list just for this matchup. I figure I would need 2 Librarians in terminator armor with Null Zone to project a big enough psychic hood bubble. I would also need the 2 Nullzone rolls to make sure one goes off each turn. Once the nullzone is on, assault termiantors are the key to killing the council. I figure two 8-man assault termie squads in LR Crusaders can get to the two 11-man Councils and have the bodies and damage to deal with them, especially in round 2 when your Prism fire will be hindered. That would give me a reasonable chance in rounds 2+3 to take out the councils.

Nullzone and Termies are the key. But how much will that weaken me against the rest of the field? I'm afraid I wouldn't have the shooting needed to take out an armor 12 spam list like Guard or mech Eldar. I could hope to leave it up to the draw. Maybe someone else will bring a good enough termie list to beat you. I know there will be at least one 9 Valkyrie/Vendetta list at Springfield this weekend. I can hope he has the speed to corner the troop jetbikes, while dodging the council jetbikes and pot-shoting them with template. I don't think you'll lose though.

I looked at a Berzerker army delivered in Land Raiders to pile on the council. I know the dice odds are slightly in your favor, however when a huge number of dice are rolled rarely to the dice odds come up. The rolls tend to swing in one direction or another and the dice odds come out as the average of the two extremes. All I would need is one extreme in my favor to win combat by 5-6 and cause you to make 1-2 leadership rolls at a 4 to wipe out a whole council. Then again, the problem of what do I do to the rest of the field comes back into play. If I change my list to much to counter one extreme list, then I can leave myself open to being beaten by a balanced list.

So much to think about in just a few days. Double Nullzone and 16 assault termies? Keep it balanced and hope for someone else to take you out? What to do, what to do?

Just tossing this out there but um... why do you have enhance x2? Doesn't stack.

So that when one dies he doesn't lose it on the squad i'd assume

Remember that Null zone only has a 50% chance of going off with the ruins, and even then it only effects invu saves so anything shooting at them that is ap4 or higher won't get the null zone, same with choosing to use cover saves.

So far, I haven't seen anyone run something close to my Salamanders list but I have 13 terminators plus Vulkan. The key against a heavy terminator army will be to try and engage all of the terminators you can with one squad while the other destroys everything else in sight.

For any marine player reading this, keep those land raiders moving. Hitting on 6's and followed by getting glances/ pens on 5's & 6's can save your butt when facing a seer council.

Null zone has a slightly less than 50% chance of going off, but 2 Librarians would have a really good chance of pulling it off. You are right about the Jetcouncil and their 3+ armor saves. I'd have to make sure Termies or other ap3 weapons are concentrated after Nullzone goes off to get things to work.

A Vulkan List, if Termie heavy, could be the answer to both the problems of having to face 22 Council memebers and a possible ar 12 spam list. I'm not confident a Vulkan list can pull it off, though, unless there was a Librarian with Null Zone along for the ride.

One of the funniest gaming moments I had was when a 5 man terminator squad killed a basalisk, 2 russes, 3 chimeras, and a banewolf in a game a month ago. Auto hits on stunned vehicles rocks!

Null zone will give you fits. Same iwth things like lootas. As for the fire prisms, I say take holofields. Peopel forget how good a fire prism is even with out a gun. Think contesting, ramming and tank shocks. Holofields work well for all those tactics.

Pete

ramming makes your holo-prism into a flying missile.

I like it, the army is very mobile

x2 Null zoned Librarians have a shot.

I'd say vulkan lists and Valk/Vendi IG lists will give you the most hassle on your matchups, but all things being equal, they will fear you as well.

I find it interesting on the troop choices and I am not sure I would go down that path, but if it fits your play style, go for it.

Nice list. Hope I fething don't see it.